Ep 022 - Homesteading, Bee's & Gardening with Kids featuring Sarah from Dirt and Daisy

Before we start today, Seedy Chats would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the Ngunnawal and Ngamburi country, recognising their continued connection to this land. Traditional custodians of all our lands, from the water running through our creeks, the air we breathe in the mountains and the stars that shine brightly in the sky, we pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging. Hello and welcome. Welcome to Seedy Chats. Hello and welcome back. Welcome to Seedy Chats, the podcast where imperfect gardeners, Avril, that's me, and Bernadette. Hi, that's me. Chat about our favorite topics, gardening and life. So whether you're new to gardening, a seasoned pro, or somewhere in between, join us on our journey to be mindful in gardening and life in general. Hello, Brunadette. Hello, Ava. Welcome back to the studio. Welcome. It's been a minute. I've been galavanting on holiday. I know. And you know, actually, you know what? You've been off galavanting and I have been living literally in a third world country. You have. You've been in some pretty rough conditions, haven't you? I have. Isn't it good living rurally? Semi-rurally? I mean, I'd hate to see myself living rurally. Semi-rural. I feel like you've been living on a loan. It's like next thing you know, you'll be... getting your flint and starting a fire. So a few weeks ago, I was at home. I wasn't feeling too well. Ava wasn't feeling well. My fire was lit and I thought, what's that noise? I'm sitting on the couch and I'm thinking, what is that noise? While I'm sitting on the couch, I thought it's an aeroplane flying over. but it didn't leave, it stayed around. And I was like, turn up the radio, turn up the TV. Holy shit, I turned the telly down because I was doing like an analysis, you know, a process of elimination, going that's not on, that's not playing the skyward. And I went, holy fuck, my chimney's on fire. Completely on fire. And I, so I'm down on all fours, looking up the chimney, it's raw red. Ava's going, oh mommy, is it? And I was like, yeah, it's on fire, because I have lived, grown up in Ireland. You live, you have fires all the time and I have lived through a few chimney fires and my mother taught me well because I'm down. I looked up, it's raw red and I thought crap. I quickly ran, got the kettle, put the fire out underneath it and I thought all I kept thinking was where are my seeds? Every kid for themselves, where's my seed collection? I haven't got to that stage yet. I am saving. That wasn't your process. I had a superhero cape on. Not all superheroes wear capes, I swear to God. Well, they're highly flammable. They are highly flammable. So I literally put the fire out, and Ava's going, oh, mommy. And I pushed my chairs back. I rolled my mat up in front of the fire, because I've just got tiles and a granite hearth. And I thought, right, what would my mum do? My mum would say, I'm not calling the fire brigade because all they'll do in Ireland is what they do. They come and they put their hoses, their hose down the chimney. Flood the house. And they flood the house. That's what they do in Ireland. Now, I don't know. So I have... You could use that water. Foam. That's another story. We're going there. So all I could think of was like fire extinguisher foam all over my room. And I'm like, I don't have time to be cleaning up. So let's just put the fire out and hope. that the chimney fires. I went outside as well and I could see. Typical mum, you're like, I don't have time for a house fire. I've got shit to do. You've got dinner at the table. And I'm sick. You didn't feel well. I'm crook. And I just sat down in front of the television with the fire on and I was like, you've got to be friggin' kidding me. Anyway, I ran outside. There's sparks coming out the chimney on top. Not only that, where the chimney meets the roof, there's smoke coming out there and I went, shit. So I put the fire out and I thought to myself, bit uncomfortable with this. I have never phoned emergency services but I phoned triple zero. I am trained you don't phone triple zero unless it's an emergency but a slight bit of me can't. I think I might actually have an emergency. Well you don't want to be that stupid person on the news where you go I didn't think it was an emergency. The roaring sound had ceased, my fire was out and when I walked outside there was no sparks or smoke coming from where it meets the roof of the house, the So I said to the girl, actually, you know what? Pretend I didn't call because I think I've got it under control. And she went, really? And I went, yeah, well, I don't necessarily want a fire brigade to come out. I think I'm quite happy I've got it under control. And her last words were to me, OK, I'll just I'll send this query onto the RFS, so rural fire service. And I was like, all right, OK. And I thought, that's it. I'm not going to have any firemen at my house. And I was happy with that, right? It's all good. Or women. Fire people. Out my house. Fire person. So 40 minutes later. I could hear a noise outside. I looked out the side door and I went, oh shit Ava, and she was like, what mommy? And I was like, the fire brigade. The fire brigade have just rocked up. And I had a spit second where I was like, quick, in, close the doors and let's hide. So this is about where you messaged me and you were like, holy shit, the house is on fire. There's 20 fire brigade trucks here. No, no, no. So they drove off and I went. Oh, you. They don't know where I live, it's grand. They came into the drive and I was like, I'm sure it's okay, I've got it under control. Cause I actually thought you had to pay for the fire brigade. So I'm like, I told you not to come. And this is nothing. Have it on record. Yes, I told you, I said it on the phone. I'm saying it now. And I said, look, you know, I'm really sorry. It's quite expensive for you to come out. And the girl was like, it's not, it's nothing. Like it's no cost. And I was like, oh, but your time is money as well. Time is money. And she was like, will we go and check your roof? And I was like, no, it's fine. And they were like, it can smolder. And then we come back in the middle of the night. And I was like, oh God, that's going to happen to me. Okay, get up in the roof. So yeah, not only one fire brigade rocked up, we had four. We had four fire brigades and like a van. Like a- A quiet day in the suburb. And I was like- Do you know what? This is what they train for though. They get excited with a genuine call. But God bless how- emergency services personnel out there that come and look after us. They got their ladder out, up they went into my roof, they said they brought their little heat monitor in. And you must have had peace of mind then right? Well they were like your grate is at 20 degrees so that's out obviously, but up in your ceiling cavity it's 140 degrees. So they were like we would like to really check it and make sure there's nothing smouldering. It's good temperature for canning. Brunadad, today we are talking to a friend of ours. So we're very lucky, aren't we, that we have met some great people gardening. We have an amazing network. We do. And Sarah's a great example of that, of not just someone who thinks a bit like us and lives a bit like us, but a good friend. Yeah, a good friend. And has moved to the other side of Australia. But we won't hold that against her. So Sarah lives in Perth. But shout out to all our listeners in Perth. That's right. We have a good few listeners in Perth, actually. And it's a good episode to pick up tips. on growing in the Perth climate as well. Yes and it's a very interesting take because Sarah has lived in different climates and she does dive into a bit of a comparison on what she does differently and what works for her over there. And you've got, got to check out her Facebook, her socials, her Instagram because her photos are amazing. Yeah, beautiful photos. And it's all about involving her family as well. So Sarah's an organic gardener and a suburban homesteader. She lives in Wadjuk, Noongar Country. which is the land near the Perth Hills. Her business Dirt and Daisy is about giving ideas and inspiration for anyone to grow your dream garden and live harmoniously with nature. And I think she achieves that very well because she does inspire me with her photos and even just how she talks about how she lives with her bees and everything like that. And she gets her two young children involved. She's got chickens, bees, a small orchard, an extensive veggie patch on a modest suburban block. can do it really. She and her husband are always trying new ways to incorporate nature into their lives so very excited to talk to Sarah today and we hope you enjoy the episode as much as we did and you get something out of it. Would you mind Sarah giving a very brief introduction. talking to our audience about, you know, perhaps what you love about gardening, what's gotten you into gardening, and then we'll go from there and ask some questions. Well, I'm gonna, I feel like I'm gonna jump to a question that I know you're going to ask me. Yes. Because my first gardening memory is gonna probably be something to do with that. Yeah, right. But I'm gonna also cheat. Averill, it's happening. It's happening. Our podcast is so famous. I know. But people know what we talk about. People know. Famousest. What's your first gardening memory? Well, I've got two, so I'm gonna cheat. I'm gonna do your question and double it. Sorry. We had gardeners growing up and thank goodness there were people who knew what they were doing because we had a beautiful garden and when we met Costa, I went to an event with Costa not so long ago and I took my mum along who had no idea who Costa was. Really? No idea. And so of course after a few wines I got to Costa and I'm like I'm Sarah, I love organic gardening and all this. This is my mum Karen, she pays for gardeners. She's a real Karen. I was like, I was trying to really dig her out. people like this is really important economy gardeners shut up Sarah. So anyway I find And where did you grow up? In Perth. In Perth? Yes, so I grew up in Perth and I finally from my memory was allowed one square meter if I would dug up the grass and I could plant in it. And I from memory only grew one little capsicum. And I'm sure it tasted awful, but I was so proud of that one little capsicum. Anyway, fast forward to us being in Canberra and my aunt and uncle have been massive inspirations to us because they're on suburban block and they've got chickens and bees and, and veggie beds. And so we kind of thought, well, that is really kind of true to how we want to raise children and what we want to do as a family. And so, um, I guess the two sides of it of really trying when I was younger and getting my own square little meter, and then really coming to love, just as much of that nature as possible into our lives. In your defence, capsicums are difficult. I can't grow one to save my life now. You'd probably be happy with one these days. Yeah, and can you think back to anything special that you might have done or? I mean, I think neglect was a pretty big part of it. Yeah, really. Maybe the gardener gave it some love because he felt sorry for me. I'm not sure, but I cannot for the life of me grow a capsicum now. And so your aunt and uncle, were they in Perth? They were. They moved all around. And so I've always kind of ended up visiting them in some way, shape or form. But they're settled in Canberra now. Oh, they are. And they had spent a lot of time here before. But they're yeah, they're on a suburban lot. And they're just sort of they love doing everything that I guess we do. My husband and I. Yeah, beautiful. And what are the kind of things you've got set up? You were talking about what's important to you and how you're raising your family. What are you doing consciously for your kids that might be a bit different to the everyday person? So, I guess we're just trying to incorporate nature as much as we can into our lives and sort of live as harmoniously with nature and with the environment as possible. And so that started with veggies. I mean, before we had children, it started with veggies and then that started growing into well, we've moved somewhere that we haven't enough space for chickens. So that's a given we love chickens and then wait, we have enough space for bees. And if there's anything that's really influenced the way that I like to design the garden or do the garden, it's the bees because the idea of having flowers all year round is so important that you can just feed them naturally all year and not have to artificially do it. So we've kind of started at one end, which is vegetables and fruit and sort of come full circle in our back to a native garden. So the whole front yard is going to be effectively a flower meadow and trying to make sure that we have as many say winter. flowers as possible because spring and summer, we're fine. We've got vegetable flowers. But autumn and winter is really a time and Southwest WA is a biodiversity hotspot. So there's an amazing amount of things that flower. Yes. Yeah, beautiful. And obviously your bees can travel up to, what is it, like 10k? 10k I think. Yeah, something like that. You sound lazy. I'm OK with mine being lazy. You did say you had some lazy bees, maybe like 100 metres. I think that our backyard is their retirement village, because as they get older, they're a lot more dull in colour. And so we've got the odd nasturtium flowers in the back. We've got these old bees just hang out on them. And I'm like, that is so great that you don't have to fly far. Yeah, right. But it's so good if they have like food sources close by. one out so they actually have you know a more sort of vigorous colony if you can have as much close as possible. You're so clever I'll tell you a little story so I had some frames that I had to I wanted to cut the cone off and just put it in jam jars I didn't want to extract the honey I just wanted to keep it in the in the wax and I then took those frames pop them in a bag and I thought I'll put them down by my by my beehives because they cleaned them up beautifully they cleaned the told me about this that's how she cleans her frames up so I put them outside in this bag and they knew the honey was there in there and they I could see them coming and trying Yeah, it was amazing. They sniffed it out. They sniffed it out, yes. And because the weather was quite cool, some of them I could see had passed away on the ground. But they knew it was there. They knew that food source was there. I was so impressed with that. Right, shall I go put the kettle on? It's cup of tea time. So talk us through the setup that you've got at home, because it's amazing. So you've got the chickens, you've got the bees. How much are you growing at home? What are you growing at home? What are you doing with it? What is your family doing with you? So we moved into the house about a year and a half ago and we had some 30 year old citrus trees in the back. So not touching in so far as looking after. So they needed a massive haircut. Because they do have a lifespan, 30 years is a long time. Oh, I don't know in Perth. I feel like all the old houses So one of the issues we have is gall wasp. And so in principle, you should be cutting all the branches that have the gall wasp in it. But as long as your neighbor or your neighbor's neighbor or someone in the suburb has a citrus tree with gall wasp in it, they're gonna come back. So it's kind of problematic, but. positives is that we've come into this house with this beautiful orange tree and lemon tree and so we're keeping them as it is and the six oranges from last year have turned into over 15 kilos now. I haven't even touched one. Oh my gosh. I have you know so Sarah has an awesome Instagram account and Facebook page and I've seen your oranges on there that you harvested and you've made some beautiful whiskey marmalade. I don't like marmalade but I said to my husband you like marmalade you tell me what whiskey you want in it and he said Glen Mirange. Sure. And then I went to the bottle shop and I was like, oh I see why he wants Glen Morangy. Alright, okay. That's not cheap. But for anyone, I'm not a big fan of marmalade and for anyone that isn't a big fan of jam in general, add it to the bottom of a glass. muddle it around with some alcohol and top it up with soda water and you've got a delicious cocktail vodka anything so any jams like it's any it's sweet it's fruity it's a bit of flavor well i've got to say i don't like marmalade but i'm absolutely gonna big note myself here it is delicious and everyone in the family has had their own little tiny jar and they're all asking for the recipe and they all want more and i'm like what did you do with it oh you see it's homemade you don't have to you don't have to see i think this should be my own secret recipe which is not secret at all because on my Instagram account I say which recipe book I got it from. But let's say it's secret because it's kind of like for me, Brandy Custard, right? If I had Brandy Custard every weekend of the year, it's not special. But what I'm excited for is my family who doesn't do a whole lot of growing and sort of producing around super busy. Maybe this is their thing. Every June, July, they can look forward to having a jar of the homemade marmalade. You know, if you want to make it last, my mum puts it on ice cream. Oh, well, yeah. Put it in biscuits. It's like a coulis. It's just an orange coulis, really. Jam drop biscuits. Yes. So anyway, so we've made of oranges. The kids help you process it all and they love it. Pick them. You've had some beautiful pictures of them picking. They love picking them and we've got one of those old school set of scales so they love balancing it on top and trying to understand like there's just so much. One of the big things that I try and kind of show you know through my accounts is no matter what situation you're in you can do some kind of gardening and I know a lot of your guests have said the same thing whether you're renting an apartment or you know you've got acreage. But especially with children they don't they're not in the way there's things that we love weeding. Pulling after rain pulling the grass up from between the pavers and trying to get the root system intact is so satisfying. That is a very, one of my favourite things. Yes, and my son gets really upset if I'm outside weeding and he's not doing it as well and he gets really angry when it snaps off. You get the root and you go I've got you, you bastard. Yeah and it's good for their coordination, you know what I mean, like it's quite a dexterous isn't it, like it's quite a, it's a good thing. Look we didn't do sensory classes with our children, we just had them in the garden, I'd pick herbs and scrunch them up under their noses and you know. is slightly fluffy and then you'd have rosemary which is so different. Again you know there's just they can be stacking your little pots that you get your plants in and you can be teaching them colors and the shapes and you learn how to fit the different shapes and sizes into each other. Ava gets them like basil and mint and crushes it up and puts water in it and starts drinking it. She's making her own cocktails like so early. Charlotte does too but mostly with poisonous inedible things and makes me drink it. But you're right and they love to. They love being involved. They do love doing it. And it makes you so happy, right? There's so much research now that says even just being in a garden or especially organic gardens, the kind of vacay things that come up from the soil when you're pulling weeds out, it's an antidepressant. So they're out there having the best time, they're getting sunshine. I mean, we have to threaten them with TV time if they're not behaving in the garden. We're like, if you don't start listening, you're going to have to go watch TV. Wow. So it's sometimes you can watch us wait from the window and think about what you've done. Probably words we've said. But I think it's kind of my main thing is it gets hard when you want to achieve a certain outcome by a certain time. That's when it gets stressful because you know you feel like they're getting under your feet or they're not doing what you tell if you just go into the garden with the attention of just being there. Yes. You had the most amazing time we've made amazing memories. I mean we were picking peas and my daughter started just throwing them up my head because I was collecting the peas. But so long as you don't have that time limit on you. Yes. So sorry, that's a very, very bad. So for example, that day when I was harvesting for the horticultural show that was in a few hours and I was home alone with Charlotte, that was not the time to be gardening with a child. That's not the time that you want to stop and explain the life cycle of the garlic bulb. No, that's not, that's not on the agenda. You've got to be realistic because you're gardening, see like you garden before having children, you know, so you've had your time on your own and it does change a little bit, doesn't it? You do have to put it into perspective and. One of my pieces of advice to people who are, you know, new to children or new to grandchildren or something like that is to do things with them that you would like to do yourself. Don't sit there and draw if you don't like drawing and you know, it's really nice when you have a hobby like gardening and you can share that with them and do it with them and then you're not sitting there counting the seconds either going, oh God, you know. It's so true, we, our weekends aren't sort of strict. Here's what we're gonna do, we're gonna sit and practice letters now and maybe my children will not be able to write their names But they will be able to identify Brassica. Well, but my son had to pull weeds with the roots. And that's a good one. Get them their own little bucket. They love that sort of ownership over it. But my son knows what a special ladybird hug is that creates baby ladybirds. And he knows that he found one walking on our bricks before. So we pulled up a whole lot of pavers in the backyard. I noticed that. So explain to me why you've done that, because I loved your pavers. Oh, sorry. So the pavers were in between your raise girly. So just quickly, so he picked one little ladybird that was walking along the pavers up and he put it on the tomatoes because he said he was not through and he said, oh, I'm going to put ladybird there for dinner because he saw they were aphids. Like thank you for pointing that out. But so, so that's how we, like you said, you kind of do the things you enjoy and just bring them as part of it is how we found my success. But yeah, the whole backyard was just red brick pavers. And if you live in Perth, the two hottest things you can have in your garden are red flavors or synthetic grass. Yeah, right. Okay, Perth in summer, you will burn your feet. And so I was never handy. Like I just always kind of probably much like my parents with gardeners was just like someone else can do that because they have the skills, they have the knowledge, they kind of have the confidence. My husband has taught me to just give it a crack and if I fail, he'll finish it and do it much better than I will. I try and put together a solution and I'll call it bespoke. He'll undo it and do it perfectly. So. And we will be after 10 troops back to Bunnings for 10 different kinds of screws. But yeah, so it was all just red brick pavers and it was a cubby house. And so both of our mums thought the cubby house should obviously be for the children. We've moved from a small terrace and we're like, our house is sufficient. They do not need more space. What does need space is chickens. The first job he was on was trying to construct a kind of chicken run with the cubby house. So they've got this beautiful little weatherboard thing that they can live in. And then it was onto garden beds. say you have beautiful, a beautiful eye for that sort of stuff. Everything that you do is so aesthetically pleasing. It is. I will just say though your husband's very good at photography isn't he? Is it your husband that's good at photography? I take the photos. No way do you? He might kill me. He is, he's a photographer. He's a photographer. So I probably learned a bit from him. Yes, yes. But um. Along the way. Yes I'll give him credit. Go on. Um but no he's definitely taught me stuff along the way. I take um a fair amount of the photos. Yeah right. But do you know I think That's very kind of you to say and angles do wonderful things. But... Veggie gardens don't have to be ugly. So many people think if I want a beautiful garden, it's not going to be a veggie garden. And the great thing is three months later, if you don't like the way you put your radishes or your fennels in, pull them up, try again. I just think veggie gardens can be the most beautiful thing. And we're getting away from the block planting. I mean, we don't have enough space, but from the big patch planting, where you're just going to have masses of the one crop and realizing that into planting them with a whole lot of different things, whether it's based on companion planting or whatever you want to kind of call it. In fact, beautiful. Stephanie Rose told us that amazing fact that when some insects land that might feed on plants if you've got brassica, brassica that they land on those three points within a little circumference. It's like oh my god I've got a smorgs board here. They'll go tell all the other to come eat it so you're actually much better off splitting it up. Yeah and that's why companion planting so they'll land on your broccoli, your brassica for example but then the next land will be a calendula and they'll go oh there's not food here so they won't tell their mates. They'll be like yum, ew, ew. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not a smorgasbord. I'll go to your neighbors. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and that's the idea. You know, if you can interplant even like rhubarb, you know, and have all your, like artichokes and they all look beautiful and give so much diversity. But doesn't it look beautiful? I love it. I mean, you can have a chive head, a chive head. Yeah, yes. So you don't, if you don't, I mean, so we designed it so that the garden beds themselves were three kind of. Timbers high. Yep. Pretty tall. But when we had really young children at that stage, things like tomato leaves and stuff, we kind of wanted to keep them up so that they could have relatively free play in the garden with us worrying about what they're picking. Yes. Then we did two timbers high for herb gardens. So anything they pitch from there and they might not like it, but they're, you know, fine. Yes. Antioxidants or whatever. Yeah. But I call them my little witches gardens. Yeah. Because they're just this whole little hodgepodge of all the different herbs and things that are creeping time. I've got 10 different kinds of time in the garden. Yeah. And And the creeping time that just flows over the edges of the beds and softens those hard edges. And that's a fantastic companion plant. So there's a lady that we community garden with and she picks it and even just scrunches it up and throws it. It's meant to keep a lot of aphids away. She throws it. And I was like, I have never read that anywhere. I mean, maybe it's not true. But you know that knowledge that something that she feels works. And I've just gone with it as well. And I think she's onto something like... It's like that creeping time and she just throws it everywhere and it does keep it away. Stuff it in your roast chicken. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, orange thyme. It's all that perfume. But you were saying about the pavers pulling them up because of the heat and shout out to my dear friend Jenny who listens to the podcast. She's in WA and she's really struggled, especially last summer. She lost everything to the heat, lost the cucumbers and everything. And does she have pavers? I don't know, but. But you know, do you have it like, so obviously you're dealing with pretty extreme heat over there. What other adjustments have you had to make? So, I mean, definitely the plants, right? We have these beautiful 30 year old hydrangeas living in the garden and they had the gnarled roots. They were stunning. But the word hydrangea literally has a stem word of hydro. They need so much water. Yeah. And it's not a practical thing. So I'll still grow, you know, exotics being, you know, veggies and that. But we got rid of those and gave them to a, you know, wanted to give it a go. So I think smart plant choice, a lot of people in Western Australia or the hotter parts use shade cloth. I haven't done that because we do have the big citrus trees and a few other trees around the garden. I mean I guess if you reuse it season after season and we have some dear friends from down to earth who tell me I should do it and I don't listen because I'm obnoxious. But it works so well for them and they're fantastic at what they do. They're very good. I met Julie. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so they're, I would call them experts. They absolutely are. So Sarah is a petulant teenager and is not doing that, even though the experts told me I should. So I would suggest to your friend that they do that. But I kind of happy to accept some loss. I guess you've pivoted and you've thought, well, I just may not be able to grow certain like, instead of having, I mean, if you've got the shade cloth, that might expand your growing options. Or you can say, otherwise I can just grow this, this and this. I think you can your own little microclimate. So one of the real benefits of having a small backyard is, you know, we did an arch of French beans and then you have the trees and you have other things that are going to, like the tomatoes, they're going to manage that heat and also provide some shade and protection to your other plants. And do you do a lot of annuals? Yeah, yeah. So we do have quite a few annuals. I do try and do as many perennials as possible just because it's easier. Yeah, we know that. That's where I'm at. You like that? I'm trying to pivot there. Yeah. Especially in the flower garden, like Goo Gong and Canberra taught us that if you can have naturalizing bulbs, they just keep giving back more and more as the years go on and the bees love them as well. And they get better and stronger and easier. My daily is now, I don't even dig them up. Mum still digs hers up. And are they better? Does she win awards with the old man? She does. Hers are better. However, mum's daily abed is her veg bed. So when the daily is finished, she rips them out, she puts all the veg in. So she's using the one spot for that. So you know, she does that. doing other stuff but I find with mine now I just leave them out there and same with the lilies and other bulbs and things and then to see what pops up see what self seeds from last year and then cram in whatever I've impulse bought from the shops because I can't help myself. But it's also amazing what you can actually eat I mean our family is based on food thoroughly and so a lot of what we do is the gardening but it's also homesteading so trying to preserve food and trying to just you know we got the old side of an Ikea cot I painted it and that's our herb drying rack. And so- Oh, we've got to share a photo of that. Yeah, well, it's on Sarah's social media. It's beautiful. And your social media handles? It's dirt.and.daisy. So it's Dirt and Daisy is the company. Yes. And so Miscari, the little grape hyacinths, the tiny ones that are worked so well at the front because nothing really is shorter than them. Much like me in most places. Yeah, apparently you can make a cordial from the flowers. Oh, no way. Stop it. I thought they were quite poisonous. Please everyone, Google before anyone does that because Sarah and I thought they were liable for someone dying. I'll make a cordial and get Avril to taste it. Oh, that'd be right. I love a nibble. But it's amazing, the more, I don't know if COVID's spurred it on or if it's just because I'm starting to see stuff and my cookies are working for me, but there's a lot more stuff that's useful. The more value, once you start seeing that value, you sort of see it everywhere. So what, talk dirty to me, what else are you homesteading, growing yourself, preserving, feeding to the family? Well we do love our garlic. and I think shop bought garlic. Hello. Well, we have, how many generations now, we are growing Sarah's garlic. So Sarah gifted me the garlic that ended up being the grand champion garlic winner. Yeah, right. That was from your original plots at the community garden. How many years had you grown it? From the beginning of the community garden. So, eight years? Something like that. So yeah, so it's eighth generation. I love that. You know, as far as how I'm growing, this is when you absolutely need to be sold on chickens. Because a home laid egg is, we, we eat so much more seasonally now, unintentionally. And if you told me that come winter, you will not be eating eggs. I'd be thinking, Oh, I'll just buy them. We have not bought any eggs since last November when our chickens started lying. We're getting one every couple of days or sort of changing their feed and just seeing what's going on. But when it's winter, they lay less. We're just not eating eggs. But then you appreciate it and get so excited when that season comes, right? Then it's a celebration of eggs and you do quiche and you do things that when you really think about that and bring it in to how you can honor it. But if you have that constantly, there was a while there I was going off quiches because I was making them so much. You get complacent, right? But then again, with children, I mean, I get very excited by this, I can live through my children and pretend it's for them. I've got chickens who all lay different coloured eggs. And you've got green eggs and blue eggs and white eggs and, you know, brown eggs because I always needed an Isaac Brown called Penny. That was just always on the cards. I love that too. That's one of my favourite things about gardening. And that's actually what got me really interested in the first place was... growing all these things that you couldn't get at the supermarket that blew my mind. I was like, look at this. Turnips, remember you had turnips. Turnips, kohlrabi. I was like, what's kohlrabi? Yeah. And so same with the eggs. Like we're just so used to getting our same little eggs in our same little carton, but there's quite a variety out there. And the smaller eggs that I know, because you have chickens. I don't anymore. Mr. Fox came along and. Do you have a Mr. Fox? Okay. When you do have chickens. Do you not have foxes, silver and pearls? We do. Oh, you do. But like our. Not in sweat. No, no, but our chicken coop is fortified because I can't handle the idea of coming out to sea. Well, snakes we'll have to deal with because our house is also- Would you get snakes in your backyard? Oh, for sure. And we're across, firstly, Perth, there's some ridiculous statistics about the different kinds of lizards and snakes that we have around. But we're also across from a nature reserve. And our house is also lifted up. So there's more than likely, you know, a snake. On thousands of snakes. Yeah. And I reckon there's a couple of chickens who'd go them. But the smaller eggs are- are the more delicious, rich, creamy eggs. So where I would normally go to the supermarket and get those massive kind of, you know, water-filled eggs, I will happily give them away to friends and family because the tiny eggs are the ones that I cover. So if anyone gets a blue or a green egg, you know, you're pretty special. Also, they're quite practical to have a few different chickens in a few different sizes, depending on what you're doing. And like, you know, when you're glazing, I made my sourdough dinner rolls last night and I was just glazing the top with an egg and all I had was those giant extra large eggs. wise. But nice to have just a little quail's egg would have been perfect. That's the next thing. Quail, quail, quail. Yes, quail would be great. Would you ever process and eat any of your own hens? OK, so well, not Penny, obviously. I don't know. She's been pretty close. She's got attitude. No, we had these three Plymouth Rocks, which were bred, you know, during the war for both eggs and for the meat. They're big bowling balls. I mean, you don't have to clip their wings. They're not getting any kind of aerodynamics. They were bullies. It was like West Side Story and they were like singing and clicking their fingers. Awful. They bullied the other chickens out of the nesting boxes. Hands are bitches. There is a reason it's called a pecking order. They were awful. Anyway, I was looking at whether we process them because I'm very, I would love to have chickens in our freezer that we know what they've eaten. I started calling butchers and despite the fact they thought this crazy woman asking about how she kills her backyard chickens, they were talking about you. We need to take them to a vet and a specialty vet who checked them for worms. And maybe if it was just my husband and me, I would have been more than happy to give it a go. But when there's children, I just thought, we ended up giving them to someone, sort of selling them to someone, because they're a heritage breed to kind of come on them. How do you check if they've got worms? I don't know, I guess that's what the vet kind of. Right. I don't know, but. Why, can they pass the worms onto you? I don't even know. I just thought by the time someone said, by the fifth butcher and the third slaughterhouse, I thought this is getting a bit much. The worms are only in their gush. Like it's not as if they're riddled. Their meat is riddled. Look, practically, I know so many people process themselves and I would love to. If we had done property, maybe we would, but... I just heard too much that was like, I don't know why you would do that. It's a good point that you touch on because with this homesteading and we were talking about it off there just a little bit earlier about canning, cause we both share a passion for canning. There's this fear that you're going to kill the whole family by trying to make your own jam or something. Yes. Yeah, it's real. And it is. So, so you, you tread this line between wanting to be more self-sufficient, but not wanting to kill everyone. Yeah. Cause I am not self-sufficiently able to resuscitate. someone from being poisoned. I just think you ease yourself into it. You know what I mean? So you've thought about processing, you've done that step, it's probably still in your head, so you'll probably still explore that idea. Like you're not gonna do it all at once, it becomes overpowering. And now you've talked to Bernadette about canning. And so you'll probably go home and maybe find someone to can with. I think it's about taking those steps. Dare I say it, Avril? This is where community could help. Oh, hello, Bernadette. Look at you. Like community sufficient. But that's where it is. Like you were saying, you've got to be mentor. And I was like, what? bloody terrific idea because I've got a heart. I know, I really think you should get a bee mentor. You're gonna have so many questions. I was thinking you could be my bee mentor. You can help me out. Cause I became a worm spurt for a while, but I'm like, I don't think I can be a bee spurt. But you're gonna have so many questions and to have a bee mentor is just that person that you can just message and be like, they're doing this weird thing. Do you send them photos? You're like, this is a seven second clip. No, I do and he's amazing and he responds so quickly. So like when the bees are beading, if you don't know how it looks, swarming but when it gets to you know a really hot day they be they literally make it look like a beard on the front of the hive and it's just they're air conditioning the hives so the less bodies in the hive the cooler it is but they flap their wings to try and cool it down. I know Bernadette's gonna go into a vortex with this. I was saying to you that when I heard my Queen Bee sing and not everyone hears it that was it. That's it. No one's getting rid of that queen. I'll be a nursing home for that queen. That's fine. But they are just amazing. We can see them from our bedroom window and you just see them coming and going every day and you smell the honey whopped through. And you wave the wing. It's amazing. You just get to know them. And look, people say, how do you know it's your bees that pollinated your blueberries? And I don't, I don't have a little, you know, ownership stamp on the back of them, but I know. Yeah. They're young. You can see them coming over the house and you just go, not only is this our produce, It's organic, it's our base politics. It's like a little Nemo wave. But we absolutely talk to them and I know that to a lot of people that would sound crazy, but they exist by vibrations and that is what noise is. So I was saying to you, I sing the same song every time I go near them so they know. Two people have been stung. Fortunately not my husband who's allergic. Carry an EpiPen and get over it. quote unquote. But so his brother came over and we think there was something in his aftershave because the bees usually warn you they give you a nice bommie knocker on the head to be like back off. They didn't even give him that. The next day he came back without that and didn't get stung. Oh interesting. And God bless our child who stuck his head in the hive for about two minutes and then got stung and I was like do you know what? That's a lesson. It's fair. You're not going to do that again. And I mean two hours later that was no fun. How would they if your husband's allergic Are your kids allergic? Well, I mean, as far as we know, myself and my daughter could be allergic, but we've never been stupid enough to stick our heads in a hive. My mum's allergic. Oh, is she? I have never been stung. So I don't know. I've never been stung. I don't want to tempt fate here. But no, our son, his sting was completely cleared after two hours. Not even a little bump that looked like a mosquito bite. It was gone. Oh, really? Well, he's definitely not allergic then, but it is a cumulative. Yes. I understand. So the more you get stung, the more you can react. Yes. As mum and my. when the next thing could be her last. Is that where you get in the hive? That's where I get my flair for the dramatics. Bernadette, well I think you might have your bee mentor coming onto the show. Yes, coming onto the show. Am I getting to take me under his wing, Avril? He was very fond of you at the Bee Festival, I'll just say that. Yes, well, what's not to be fond of? He's only human. Something that inspires me about your property is... It's very, it's very achievable, right? You don't have a huge acreage. How many square meters? 600 square meters. Block. And we're fortunate that it's an older home. So it's sort of 360 garden around the home. Cause I mean, we don't need a movie cinema or, you know, kids play room or anything. So they have garden. Yep. And so the idea is we want it to flow. We want there to be a nice feel throughout, but the definitely is sectioned off into different purposes. And depending on, you know, where the sun is or frankly, I want to be able to stand in the kitchen and chop up my veggies and look to the garden and see what we have. If I don't see it, I forget it exists. I must say, it is very considered. That's a goal of, I know I'm trying to get away from being more organised, but I would also, I do also like the consideration and bit of planning there. Like, what kind of things do you grow yourself now? Um, I, well I try and grow everything that I can that doesn't look tropical. But I'm excited this year because my fennels are looking just amazing and I've never had success. Fennels, dill, I don't know, there's just something, the dill has self-seeded so that was great. I was going to say, you've had no success with dill. Oh I do now. Yeah dill weed, you'll have it forever. Yeah I'm so happy with that. West Australian seafood. I'll be part of a tourism campaign there. No the fennel is looking amazing and the garlics, of course tomatoes, that's always so exciting. I don't. What is it about tomatoes? It's because they're grown in your soil, they're sweeter. They taste better. They're not as chewy when you get them from the supermarket. It's like a little bouncy ball. They're just picked on ripe. They have to travel. I'm sure a lot of them are hydroponically grown now. There's no taste. Soil tastes produce. That's the best way. Who described that to us was like, was it Mark Valencia? It was like with grapes, like you're always the soil plays a massive part in how they taste. And so why doesn't that happen to everything? And it's a lot of sense. I'm really enjoying growing different herbs. Oh, yeah. So we've got. Is there any different herbs that grow over there that? You won't be able to grow here? I mean, I think you could probably grow anything here in summer. Yeah. But if it's a perennial, it has to deal with the frost and all that. What about coriander? Because coriander is a great winter one here. Coriander is good, but it bolts, I guess, pretty fast. In Perth, because it is a bit warmer. But no, our coriander is going great right now. And I love collecting. They've got firstly a lazy. But as we know, the more you grow, it acclimatizes. Yes. So yeah. And I love the coriander seed. I told you, I'm a lazy gardener. flowers on it. Let's say it's because I want to collect the seed but because Sarah has not pulled that out of the garden. But then you get the coriander seed and have you ever just dry toast in a non-stick pan. I've never done that with coriander seeds. Dry toast them, mix it with some honey and drizzle that over the top of mozzarella or like a burrata cheese and put some tomatoes with it. It's next level. So yeah, the coriander but I love a verbatim I've tried bergamot. So I've dried some of that. I haven't made tea with it yet. Have you never grown bergamot? Have you grown bergamot? No, I feel like it has medicinal properties, doesn't it? Well, I mean, that's Earl Grey tea. Right? Oh! Oh, I haven't made tea with us yet because it's sitting drying for six months on the rack. Sarah hasn't taken it off yet, but when I do make tea, it'll be good. But trying to be a bit more creative with what I'm growing and as far as the homesteading, you know, if we get beeswax from the bees next year, do I make some soaps and have the lemon verbena as the kind of flavour to it? Yeah, right. Well, the soap that we gifted you, that's made locally. It smells beautiful. Erin, that we also podcasted with from Honey and Glow, that's her beautiful soap. But you said soap is hard to make. Is that rosemary and mint? Yes. It is rosemary and mint, yes. It smells amazing. I think there can be, again, a little bit of danger in the process of mixing the lye into the solution. So again, you've got to know what you're doing a little bit, but that's making, you know, soaps, which aren't as worrisome. Or even I've heard, I haven't tried it myself, but I've heard of sort of mixing e-cool parts of, you know, coconut oil with beeswax with something else to make like a lip balm. So kind of things you can do that aren't stepping into dangerous territory because I wouldn't trust myself. That's fine. I think your next one that you'll have to do is Bernadette's vanilla essence. Oh, yes. That's the easiest thing you'll ever do. forget about it, that's vanilla essence. I think vanilla essence is something ridiculous, like $15 a jar or something like that. So it's really great. I made it for Christmas last year and gifted it to people, but it's a fantastic one to make yourself. I'm so excited by that. I'm also so excited and feel like you should get commission for every dehydrator you sell then at that, because I have one, I'm a dehydrator now. It will happen one day. And she wants one, right? Hello. I want a freeze dryer. I need someone to sponsor the show. Oh, it's a freeze dryer. Freeze dryer. Is there anything else in your home that you're always a little bit more mindful with? Like anything that you use like toiletries or like... What I personally try and get things that are not tested on animals. Yeah. Um, we try and do everything as natural as possible. Um, but at the same time, we wouldn't make sure that the product works. And I think sometimes we've tried a few kind of eco detergents and probably don't feel it works as well, but I'm always up for trying more and new products. Um, there's a whole new category like in supermarkets that I'm really impressed. So I normally just, I use the earth. I'm always quite happy with that. Earth choice? Earth choice. It's got the world on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's been around for a while. It's been around for a while. I don't mind their laundry detergent and their washing up liquid and it's quite, it's nicely priced as well. But in the category, in the supermarket, there's all these new like just sheets of paper. I have to look into it a little bit more actually. I've just started using those. Have you? For my washing machine and my dishwasher because they come in a paper box. Yeah, I've noticed that. And then you fold the sheet into like quarters and you know the other nice thing about it, instead of a tablet for the dishwasher, if it's not a completely full load you can fold the sheet in half and tear it and only use half. Oh, that's a great idea. Instead of using... Does it do as good of a job cleaning? I've had absolutely... Look, there's a lot of eco things I've swapped to and then swapped back but I would liken this to when I went to the shampoo bars. I won't go back. Very happy, very happy. Well, and there's something to be said for people. We've lost the knowledge of what people used to do. We used cloth nappies mostly, definitely for our son, for our daughter, we kind of, you know, she drinks a lot of water. So we kind of did supplement a little bit with her. People were so worried about staining of the nappies and you just put it in the sun. There's no staining, they're clean. Of course they can be clean and have marks on them, but you leave them in the sun. And there's other things like on a Sunday when I'm, you know, trying to dehydrate my oranges or anything, left, I put them in a bowl and I shove that in the microwave until it's boiling and the whole microwave steamed. I put it out, wipe it out and the whole kitchen smells like oranges and it's clean. Yeah I do that even still, I just put water in. and put it on and let it steam. And that's how I clean my microwave and it's always sparkling. So if you put a couple of just spent halves of citrus in there as well, it's apparently got some kind of sort of anti-bacterial property to it as well and anti-odor. Yeah, okay. And if you've got lots of the skins and you dry them out, you can just leave them there. First of all, fantastic fire starters. But also I blitz them up in my NutriBullet and add them back into the garden. It's a bit of an acidic lift if you need that for a soil amendment. Yeah, loads, lots of things that you can do, you know, not just growing those other things you can do in your home. Um, like I'm also mindful of brand, you know, it's something that you kind of go to some hardware stores and you say it's called organics, but if you actually look at it, everything you turn to carbon is organic. Yeah. And so they can say that it's organics and it doesn't really have to be. So I'm also really skeptical of a lot of things and cause it has a brown packet and it's got organic or natural on it. I work full-time, you know, not in the garden. Yep. So as much as I can spend time creating our own things. Absolutely. Yeah. And in general, what I think you've said it before, Avril, because you've got a system at home that needs certain products, the less ingredients on the back, that's the best indicator for me. If you've got 80 ingredients and you can't pronounce them. You can't pronounce them, that's the problem. Probably not organic. I bought something in bulk once. It was what, like a dishwashing liquid. And it had all the aesthetic that I would be, that they would, I'm the target market. And I brought it home and I started using it and I noticed I was like, what is going on? My hands are being ripped apart. When I looked at all the ingredients, very clever, they're very clever, they didn't have them on the packet. You had to look it up. And it was like, And I was like, this is no more organic than the man on the moon. But yes, it's like the light tree that you get and it's light in colour, not light in calories. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes, I was very, very angry. I and I ended up gifting it away because it wasn't what I wanted to use. But you do have to be very, very careful because they know now what people like aesthetically and what looks good. Yeah. So you do have to look at the ingredients. Yeah. you don't have to do everything and just find the things that are either as good or a lot of the time you're like this is actually easier and simpler and I can't believe even things like Avril you make your own surface spray. Surface spray is an easy one because you can just use like lemon juice and vinegar and whatever herbs, lavender, whatever you want to add to it. Yeah and close softener, we've said this before, close softener, just vinegar, plain vinegar as close softener is amazing. Amazing. Yeah, I know. And I... Delicious on chips. Yeah, I know. And you don't smell like chips because the smell dissipates. And it's great for pits, you know, when your shirt's getting smelly, you can still smell that bit of the gas samming. Oh, that odor on them. Yes. If you soak the pits in vinegar, that helps break that down. That's interesting. In between washes. Yeah. But how good is it that your children or the young people in your life, so your friends and family can see that? I mean, we get we were talking before we get so overwhelmed as a family, as myself, we get so overwhelmed with what's happening with the world and with the environment. And it's a future that our children are going to have to kind of grapple with, whether you have children or not, there's a future generation is going to have to sort of manage this. And we're already doing it now. But they're seeing us try and make changes. That's right. what's within your sort of within your proximity. So like I was saying to you, when I feel like my mind is so overwhelmed and it's spinning with the big world, I physically just visually picture myself on our block. That's all we've got. And through Dirt and Daisy, my real hope is that, you know, I guess similar to you is if any person is inspired or excited to do something or try something new because of that, then that's our little block. And then if that person grows one tomato and shares that excitement with their friend who then tries and fails and then goes to puzzle, and people should know that. That's the multiplying of things. You can't control anything more than that. Well, that's true. Unless you're Bernadette. Well, unless you win ten prizes. We're not all champion growers, but you know, if something doesn't work for you, try something else. I kill mint. Perth's very lucky to have you, Sarah, because you do offer your services as well, don't you? Yeah. is to try and use Instagram to just excite people. Yeah, that's very kind of you. Yeah, I mean, my main thing is to try and use Instagram to just excite people about having a more natural life, but I can and do so with the daycare at my primary school. I'm working with them to create their daycare patch like I did with the daycare up here. So I'll be on to that. Yeah. very cute. So I'm doing that with the primary school but you know to help people with plant selection or just some practical ideas on garden design and just sort of make it useful for them. I think if you're hesitant to get in the garden or you don't have the confidence make it something you want. Don't go grow tomatoes if you don't eat tomatoes. Go grow beautiful flowers. If you have your wedding coming up in eight weeks, 12 months time, grow some flowers. do some scabiosa and they're like you're borrower, come up, you know, the grow between pavers. There's stuff that anyone can do for what their dream garden is. You just kind of have to change your expectations and perspective on what that dream garden could be. And I have no difference. You had success with one thing, that might lead to another and it might not. That's okay, you know, like, but they like cocktails and they're always buying things for their cocktails. Just grow your own mint, like it grows like a weed. They're multiplying, it's awareness as well, right? It's not, you don't have to go suddenly and grow all the things I'm growing, but have awareness that, actually, you know, there was an awful day we came home and there were hundreds of dead bees out the front of our hive. And I was really upset by that. And you don't know what it was, but practically we live in this beautiful ornate suburb where lots of people have their roses. And realistically, someone's probably sprayed all the aphids with some kind of, you know, pesticide. Broad spectrum. And our bees have gone to those flowers and come home. And so, you know, I did a little post on the page. I didn't want to shame anyone, but she said, hey, if you want suggestions on something you could do that's more natural, send me a message. I would be really happy to have a chat you about what we can do because this is the reality of if you're using those kinds of poisons so it doesn't actually matter if you don't have that but the awareness. You only know what you know and someone might be using that and not realizing that will be happening. Yeah give it a few more weeks and you too can see the special ladybird hug. I think there's also a component there of you know trying to legislate change so that people can't unknowingly use these products that then go on to make But that's because they may not understand the impact. They may not know. And some people don't have the time and they choose to spend their hobbies doing other things that benefit us in the grand scheme of things and we're doing our thing. But if we have any kind of experience. But our thing is better. Oh, God. I'm sorry. Clearly. But it's, you know, we can share our knowledge and experience and I don't profess to be an expert in any of the stuff that we do. We're learning and our Instagram is also about us learning. Like I kill mint, but if I can learn. Mint is tricky. I've had trouble with mint. Have you? It does die back in winter but I mean that's very kind. I would have had a few cracks. Yeah I didn't know that it died back. That was my first. It always comes back. That's warm enough. Can't really use that as an excuse. I put it in a pot, I care for it. If it's on the ground, I think all the snails and slugs in the neighborhood like whistle out to their friends. I will have environmental bait down for them. I've got one chicken who will eat snails and slugs out of eight. Oh no way. One chicken head week. So fussy, is that Penny? Is that Penny? Maybe you need to put the... She only eats the best. them on a diet and then get them hungry enough and go fend for yourselves. I don't think that's great for egg production. True. They've been fed very well. But yeah, we all have failures. You guys talk about it all the time and we all learn from them. We do. I showed you my kohlrabi today, which was... Like you said though, you can use the leaves. It's not a failure. It's just a different kind of success. And it might be, it might pick up. No, I think there are seven months in the ground. Oh shit, really? It's perspective and then there's optimism. It's kind of like my vine, but I didn't know what was there. And I was like, for God's sake, it's coming out. And then I was always pulling it. I was like. What are these horny things, these spiky things? They were horned melons. Like I did not know what they were. They were like really weird cucumber, melony. I don't know if you've seen the pictures on our Instagram, but it was literally a spiky, horny cucumber with like an alien inside. I was like, Craig was like, don't say anything. Check the regulations, like biosecurity. What have you grown? Are they allowed? Like what? the seed came in some mulch or some soil I hadn't planted and it was under my grapevine. I just thought it was a cucumber or maybe a courgette and then they didn't nothing happened so when I started to pull it out it was quite a large vine I went holy guacamole. It was such a WTF moment wasn't it? Yeah and I made a video I did post that was a funny moment I was like what the fuck breaded it what's going on? Then you gifted me one I tasted it. Did you save the seed? No, I'll talk to you about that later, there was a problem. Oh, what was wrong? Was there a worm in there? I looked at it a bit too long and it all dried up. Then they were all like... Oh, I've had the CT at two o'clock. I didn't ever want to tell you and I thought that we could just bury it out of the rug and you'd never mention it again. My neighbour came round to move some stones for me and I had a, thanks, I had nothing, and I went, here, have some... Have some horny melons. And she was like, oh, thanks, and I was like, your dad might like them. Yeah, they're just like cucumber. Bless your dad with some horniness. That's so wrong. You're so wrong on so many levels, Bernadette. Well, off she went, said thanks, nothing about it. Off she went and about three weeks later, I happened to be down in their garden and they had their compost pile and I looked over and I went, what am I fucking wanting lemons doing in your compost pile? And she was like, I'm having a, and I was like, oh God, go on. I'll forgive you. I mean, they were tricky. They're African horned melons. So they were bought during the war after the war. Quite sour. I would say- You have said nothing about these plants that makes me want to grow one. I would say- Sorry, West Australia. That's probably one of the reasons you guys can't send seeds to me. You might send one of those. Thank you so much for coming on and talking to us today and just sharing, I think, your passion. Yeah. And very similar sort of gardening journey to the both of us and nice to catch up with an old friend. Is there anything, any last pieces of advice that you'd like to give to our seedy chums? I just think just give it a go and get excited about it. If something doesn't make you excited, don't do it. Find the thing that does. But in the end, the more we can kind of have more environment around us, the more we can live with nature and learn how to work best with it. I mean, it's made us happier. And if that's something that someone else can feel at the end of the day, you feel happy about sort of the life that you're living or the steps that you're taking, what else can you kind of ask for? That's right. Sarah, thank you so much for Lovely, thank you. And thank you for my beautiful soap. Oh, enjoy. And your mug. My mug. Your tea. Your bergamot tea out of the mug. Do you think you're confident enough to try the Seedy chat sign off? Oh, let's give it a crack. Oh, go on. Until next time, it's long laugh. Ah! Good mugging! Good work.