Ep 019 - Antiquus Botanicus, Dirty Janes and Garden Goals

Before we start today, Seedy Chats would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the Ngunnawal and Ngambri country, recognising their continued connection to this land. Traditional custodians of all our lands from the water running through our creeks, the air we breathe in our mountains and the stars that shine brightly in the sky. We pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging. Oh hello and welcome. Welcome. to Seedy Chats. Hello and welcome back. Welcome to Seedy Chats, the podcast where imperfect gardeners, Averill, that's me, and Bernadette. Hi, that's me. Chat about our favourite topics, gardening and life. So whether you're new to gardening, a seasoned pro or somewhere in between, join us on our journey to be mindful in gardening and life in general. Bernadette, do you have a story about your husband and your daughter? I do, Averill. So last night I went out, we do a mum's dinner once a month. We do the raffles, I lost again, no news there. It's a great time out, but I came home and Andrew was like, we had an incident. I was like, what? So poor Charlotte, she's come out of the bath and she wanted a bit of nerdy-broody time. You know, power tour running around. I don't personally allow it because there's too much opportunity for accidents. I've reviewed the footage. We do have a baby monitor in the room. And... There was a number two hat on the floor and it was then stepped in and trodden around. Poor Andrew. He'd just got it back from the bath and you just hear him go... ..expletive. He has a big swear and then he goes, Right, well I guess we're having another bath. So, yeah, poor Andrew. I think it's funny. You got a new barometer for gross when you become a parent, don't you? You do, you do. And you know what, like, she's at that age where she probably will start, where she's just two, just over two. Nearly two. Oh yeah, nearly two. So she'll be wanting to potty train. She knows the difference. Well, she was quite ashamed. She sat on the little chair, pulling the most ashamed little face. My heart broke for her. And then Andrew had the bissel out. She was playing to get up and she had to have her little ear muffs on. It was too late. She's very sensitive to loud sounds. She always covers her ears. Yeah, right. Even this morning, the first thing when she woke up, she said, oh, people are loud. She's thought about it a lot. She's traumatised. Her first core memory. That's the joy of parenting. You love any more of those accidents? I love it. Good work, Charlotte. Well, Bernadette, who are we chatting to today? Today, Averill, we have Tracy from Anticus Botanicus, which I'm hoping I pronounced correctly this time. You have, you have. There was a few times that you didn't in the podcast, wasn't there? There was a few hairy moments. It is nice for our seedy chums to see the human side of me every now and then. This is another local legend, isn't it? Yes. Tracy has a local business. and she is an accountant who studied to become a horticulturalist, a mom and a fantastic gardener. Fantastic gardener. She's got an awesome garden at her little, you know, only a 600 odd square meter block but she's got fantastic fruit trees, all these exotics. She really gets a lot out of every inch of space and you can just hear the passion coming through when she's talking about gardening and the things she grows and how much she loves it. It's just that. I guess that dream of turning a hobby into a living. That's right. And you did, you're quite an awl, aren't you? That if you were to drive past Tracy's house, that you would know that a gardener lived there. You did mention that. Yes, and she even mentions that she gets people popping little thank you cards into her mailbox, thanking her for sharing the beautiful garden with the neighbourhood, which I think is just gorgeous. And you've been into her shop. What kind of things can you find there? You can find anything garden related. It's a great little, it's a tiny little barn. It's got a beautiful feel to it. It's out the front of Dirty Jane's, which sits in Fishwick. So that's quite a really well renowned vintage store that started in the Southern Highlands. So anything garden related from tiny little succulents to different types of plants, to secateurs. I did mention, I wasn't too sure if she... salt wine, because you know I like twine, but she does beautiful seed packets from Eaton Seeds. And we have we have podcasted with Amber from Eaton Seeds as well. So that was a little foreshadow for you, Seedy Chums, that's coming soon. And Dirty Chains is actually our dirty little secret, isn't it, Averill? Because we'll often coffee and peruse the vintage wares. Yeah, we loved it. Have a lot of fun and giggling and trying things. And in the car park the other day, remember I said to you, um, bring it out. Can you get across that fence there? There's some, um, and a seat or something or it was dried. It was dead. Like a dead dill flower or something. You know, I have that in my bathroom in a vase. You were foraging. You were foraging for the dill over the fence. And you know me, I can't leave Dirty James without a wooden crate of some kind. So I think every time we've gone, I buy a wooden crate. I mean, you can't have too many wooden crates if you ask me. And speaking of me being human, Averill, we actually started this episode with a slight technical glitch. So just bear with us. The audio gets a bit of lag. We've done a pretty good job trying to edit most of it out for you, but you know. And I do remember the day that we... We actually recorded Bernadette. We had that your main screen didn't work. So we had to work off the laptop. So we were stuck together. Remember we had to sit really close together and peer into the one laptop. Oh, it was the highlight of my week, Afro. But I tell you what, we are nothing if not adaptable. Oh, that's... Hi Tracy. Hello. Welcome to SeedyChats. The Gardening Podcast, well we've got no idea what the fuck we're doing. Your friend had your opportunity at Dirty James and you jumped at the chance. Absolutely. So Jess and I opened, we opened up the shop initially. Um, we were only open four days a week. I was only out there every second weekend. Um, cause I was still working over at Pialigo as well. And then one thing led to another and. I finished up my garden at the Arboretum the last week in November on the Monday, the Tuesday I was up there when that was when it turned really cold and we had the Arctic glass and the snow and everything else just before summer. I finished the garden up on the Monday and the Tuesday. We went in and did a stock take on the Wednesday and then from the 1st of December yeah I bought Jess out and now it's me. I do have help. Shannon and Ali, the lovely Shannon and Ali, you do come and help me out. Yeah. So ultimately I only have the shop thanks to Jess. And where's the shop in Dirty Janes in Fishwick? There is the Dirty Janes precinct in Fishwick, out the front there, there is a little barn. It's a very cute purpose. Yes, beautiful. And you've got a fire in there and everything. Have you lit the fire? I like, not yet this year. Yeah. We do light it in winter. the way the weather's going, it will be getting lit very soon. I had to do know what I did have. I don't know if I should tell you though, because people get scared and they want to come in. Um, about seven weeks ago, I had a brown snake. Oh, really? Averill's had black snakes, brown snakes? Well, we get both, but yeah. Did one come in, come into the shop? It was in behind the counter with me. Oh wow. And a brown snake is they're quite, um, they can get quite angry. Like. I have red belly, black red bellies, which aren't meant to be as angry, but I mean, still it's a snake that can possibly kill you. Um, yeah, that's very interesting. We've named him Maurice. He's been in there with me for a while and I just didn't realize. He's actually really chill. Like he was just, I was doing something behind the counter and I was getting things out of a box. It was actually garlic. I was getting the garlic out of a box and I looked over and he wouldn't have even been half a meter away from me. I just came around, went in behind, like, near where I was, because I had all this lovely hessian blocking off, you know, the microwave and all those sorts of things, trying to look all rustic. So he went and hid behind there and I couldn't find him. So did you call the snake catcher? After standing there, like, screaming for someone to come and have a look and help me, because I wanted to run out from behind the counter, but I didn't know where he was. Yeah. But then I got out and yeah, Maurice was really chill. He was in there for about 20 minutes, half an hour, just cruising around, checking everything out. We're dirty, so I suppose we should explain to everyone listening what Dirty Janes is. So, because I always knew what Dirty Janes was before I came to Canberra because I was a follower in the Southern Highlands, so it's a beautiful big store. It's somewhere where you take your husband's credit card when you need to punish him. Because there is always something fantastic there. Yeah. So it's a, they have a saying over the door in the camera store and I love it. It's something about vintage like. Jane goes by, but basically the ethos behind everything is the vintage approach. It's like, if you actually want to do good for the environment, buy vintage. Yeah. Buy something new. Yeah. Something that's already lived that already has a story and that's already here. So how it works, the original is in barrel. And then Canberra opened up three years ago. It was only a few days before the first lockdown. I do remember that because they had to close the doors and my heart went out to them because I've been following the whole story and then I was like, no, but yeah, COVID anyway, we're over it. There is a collection of stall holders. So each stall holder has their own area, whether it be done by floor space or the beautiful flower cart, there's all different components within the building. And both Canberra and Barrow run the same way. And then when somebody would like to apply for a space within Dirty Jane's, they fill out basically an application for what it is they're going to bring, what their specialty is. So Jane puts a lot of effort in to make sure things are very eclectic. We have the eclectic, we have the quality. Sometimes it could be old fashioned toys. It could be the records is quite a big following for the records, there's homewares, there's clothing. furniture. So it always changes. It always changes when you go in there. You never really know what you're going to find. And that's the excitement of it. It's so diverse. And you can bring your grandpa. You can bring your husband, you can bring your children doesn't matter like they can be interested in for everyone. There's something for everyone and even someone that's not into vintage how it's displayed. is great. It's even just interesting just to walk around and appreciate all the old things. Yeah. Well, if I'm in Fishwick, like I'll stop by for a coffee. I'll have a grab a quick coffee and there's goats outside. So I do. Oh, so Berkey and Will, our lovely Berkey and Will had to move. Oh, they had to move. Yes, so it's been organized by the staff inside Dirty Stains and they've only moved because we love them. Yes, they know. There is a new goat curry restaurant, I promise. No, no, I get that. It's a... No, they just, um, just to give them a bit more space to run around. Yeah. They were so lovely that so many people feel that they have a connection. Yeah. And they will bring them treats, but they don't feel as they're not the only person who feels that way. Yeah. Fair enough. A little bit chubby. They're a bit chubby. They've gone off for a bit of a health camp. We all need to go there with them. So there's a few changes, but we've also, oh, in the last. Literally in the last week, the coffee shop is changing over. The lovely staff from Billy T's have recently moved out. Yes. Jared and his team who run Salters up in Barrel and Dirty James are moving in. So over the next month, there's going to be a new fit out done. Oh, lovely. Oh, that's exciting. Yeah, very different. Yeah. New and exciting and changes. Yeah, that's the, yeah, cause I normally, that's what I'll normally swing in. there and I know I can sit outside and the last time I was there because I happen to know someone that works there and she gave me one of your zucchinis. Remember? I remember I wandered into the store and you were like did you get that zucchini inside? I was like I did I came to say thank you for it. I was like this is so right off my alley like it was like such a random thing to happen like people would be like what but Yeah, so it's great. You never know what you're going to find. You should have seen the laughter. I don't know if you saw it at Christmas time because we have like I have this talk about the seeds and the seedlings and I have a big range of indoor plants. But I also have some vintage in store as well. And I had this really cute little vintage case and then I had embossed in it on the outside that it was a national vibrator. So it generated so much laughter. So you never know, you get skinnies, there's vibrator cases, there's a carless on the side. Oh, it's so good because that's life is, you have to have that in life, okay? You can't. It's the kind of place though you spend a bit more time at, don't you? You sort of get in, get your coffee, mosey around, it's a really great place, you know, to kill some time on a rainy Sunday or something like that. And there's things that always stick in my head. Like that glass house that they had opposite the cafe that I've never been out of. Is that still there, God? No, I've looked. Oh no, that was on a part of Jane's collection, no. They were beautiful, weren't they? Her personal collection. They were for sale. I'll have to have a word with her, see if there's... I think there's something I can say. They were beautiful. There's just a few things and just sometimes how they style things. I'm very, my whole house is quite eclectic, not because I want it to be, but it's just I've lived... a life that has traveled with me. So all my furniture was put into a shipping container and came over to Ireland and then sat over there for a while. And then I bought more stuff and then went into it. And then it came back over again. It never got unpacked and things just got added to it. So everything has a meaning. So I'm very much with the vintage. Things that have been made, like some of the storeholders, it might not be vintage what they have in there, but it's because it's homemade. It's been made. It's been handcrafted. Absolutely. So there's also that other dimension of quality that sometimes you just can't readily find things that's been handmade to the specifications that you want. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about yourself Tracy. So in a previous life I was an accountant. Okay. Yeah and then... Nothing wrong with that Tracy, that's what my degree is in. Yeah we just, oh long time ago now. We, 2006, we decided to quit our jobs and go travelling and rent the house out. And so we did, we travelled around and went to all kinds of wonderful, exciting places. And then when we came back, it was the last day I could fly into the country pregnant with our first child. Now, so being at home with the kids, my hobby of gardening turned into more of a passion. We renovated our house. And so I was starting the garden from scratch. So I decided things would have a purpose. Yes. I was able to keep some of our more established fruit trees but then everything else was a blank canvas so we set out to turn everything into a food forest on our suburban block, we're in Tugrinal. So a lot of research that I did myself like being at home and that was just my go-to. We live on a main road in between like three schools and it just became common that everybody would just see me and know who I was from being in the front yard. And when you say everything had a purpose do you mean production? You were looking for a productive yard? For food. So yes, the edibles are obviously the main focus, but to coincide with edibles, you also need to make sure you're bringing in your beneficial insects, the benefits of your companion planting. So yeah, one thing led to another and things just sort of switched over. So what sort of things have you got in there that the kids would pick and come home from school and grab and eat? Oh, it depends on the season. It really depends on the season. So... We always know when the blueberries are starting to ripen because the kids start disappearing. Of course, yes. They'll just sneak out one at a time and just start eating them. That's the deal. Because I'm from a big sibling family and you have to do a lot of stuff on the down low. Yeah, right. Because as soon as the other kids know about it, it's ruined. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And then out the front, like towards the end of the year. when the cherries start to ripen the kids all rush home so then they can actually give them to their friends and the other kids as they walk past because everybody loves them. At the moment because it's such a late season the pomegranates are just hanging out there looking awesome. I didn't know we could grow them. Oh yes yeah absolutely we can yes they're amazing. Well that's my next purchase. Yeah my friend and how are you growing them? Where like they got full sun? Is it a tree or a shrub or a bush? I have a memory of a friend in Melbourne that had a massive tree outside her front door. And it was spectacular. So how established are yours? But ours just hangs out over the front near the letterbox. How amazing. That draws a lot of attention when they're writing. Yeah, they just look lovely. And we normally have a lot of people, well, in the previous years, we've had people come up and knock on the door. Can we take a pomegranate? Yay! I'm like... Well, I suppose if they're hanging there and people probably maybe one don't know what they are or they do know what they are and they've never ever picked one or it's so special. They're quite expensive in the supermarket sometimes, aren't they? Well, all the time, probably. They just scream Christmas to me, but it sounds like they're not even in season at Christmas time. Is that right? A goal for my next year. something when I turn up at Averill's house, you know a gardener lives there. And it sounds like when people come to your house, they know a gardener lives there, right? So you're saying you've got a lot in the front yard as well. We have everything from your little companion plants and your herbs that are growing down the bottom. There's olives, plums, pears, apples, leclerine, figs, cherries, almonds. How big's the block? It's actually not that big. We're on 640. That's fantastic. That's beautiful. Do you have a lot of this project, like photographs in fruit like that you could share with us when we... I'll actually have to go for a scroll through and have a look because this past season now that I've got the shop and spending so much time out... Of course time is of the essence, yes. Yeah, this past season is probably the least amount of time I've spent in my garden. Yep. Because normally I would be spending the most, but that's just come out of necessity. It's not every day you end up with your own business. And how did that happen, sort of the transition from gardening and loving gardening to the shop and can you, is it Antiquitous Botanicus? Have I got that right? I'd only just say Anticus Botanicus. Anticus? It's Latin. Anticus? Latin. it's Latin for the vintage garden. So however people choose to pronounce their Latin, I just run with it. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. Yeah, it kind of rules. I think it rules off your tongue when you say it once, Santicas, Botanicus. Yeah, yeah. It kind of makes sense. It took me a while like... Well, edit out me saying it wrong. We can edit out the thing. Please don't. Please don't. Because the number one thing when you are, when you become a horticulturist, one of the first things they tell you is there's no lot of people around who speak Latin. Every time you try and be particular on how you say something, guaranteed there will be someone to tell you that you are wrong and then know how to do it better. Well that makes me feel a bit more encouraged to give the Latin stuff a go. Have to give it a go. That's my own spin on it. Yeah because people don't know the proper botanical name. My dad, because I grew up in a garden store, would always talk in botanical names. Yeah I'd love to remember, we had a horticulturist on... last week and she was the same just naming them out like oh my gosh it'd be so cool to do that. Yeah and I think it just yeah it keeps that that's what makes it special even this morning when we were talking about houseplants um we were saying their proper names and it does it just kind of yeah it gives it that little bit more of a special like instead of the peace lily what what's a peace lily like what's its normal botanical name that's it yeah yeah. Oh, I was just doing some research one day and I was actually scrolling through something and a friend shared just to pop up on Facebook that CIT under the Job Trainer Programme, there was free courses that were government funded. Because technically I was classed as unemployed from being home with the kids for so long, even that was by choice, I was eligible so I signed up for it. It was all very quick, I only realised that it was a thing, I think it was about 48 hours before it started, like the term started. So I put everything through and within a week I was out at CIT and I just did the full Cert III within a 12 month period. In horticulture? Yeah, in horticulture. And whilst I was studying towards the end of the year, I applied for the Jake Keller Scholarship, which it's a recognition for finishing top for horticulture and landscape for the year. Out of all the students. Yeah, so there was a nice little ceremony up at the Arboretum and- Oh, lovely. Yeah, and I said, now I actually have a little garden up at the Arboretum. I was very fortunate. What? Yeah, it's part of the awards. How amazing is that? Congratulations. Well done. So I have a little garden up there. I got to go up with Owen and Pete and the boys last year. So casually like, oh, the first thing I do is getting back out, you know, getting back into the workforce. And I've just won this award and I've created a special garden at Canberra's most prestigious garden. Yeah, it's pretty special. Well, I also ended up. Oh, the day I found out about the award that I'd won it, the kids, all the dentist appointments got rearranged and I was sitting in the dentist for like three hours waiting for them. And I was so bored, I just started looking at random things. And I ended up getting a job over in Pialigo with Graham and Living Simply. He was just looking for someone to do the watering a couple of days a week in the morning. You know, I could do that. I love it over there, it's so nice. Yeah, perfect. Yeah. We do, we do it for free. We'd be there for a coffee. We'd just do it for free. Found a copy of my old resume and wrote a cover letter saying I'd like to apply for this position. Here's my resume. It says I was an accountant in a past life. Please don't hold that against me. You just read the cover letter and rang me. Yeah. I didn't even, I was only, I think I was even there two weeks watering. And then I became the retail supervisor. And so I went from that and then my lovely friend Jess, who has had a store in Dirty Janes in the vintage precinct down in Fishwick. Yeah. Jess, our children went to school together and over lockdown we'd connected and I'd helped her with her garden. So she approached me and said she had a business proposition for me. And initially I didn't realize that Dirty Janes was a thing. So she- She said that she had a business proposition for me out at Dirty Janes in Fishwick. And you were like, sorry, I'm not like that. Yeah, I think I do, but I don't think we're going to make much money. I mean, or maybe we'll make a lot of money, but I don't know whether it's the area I want to work. Yeah, I know. B.Y.O. Dipper. Yeah, not sure where we're going with this one. But like, yeah, within a matter of... weeks, I think it was even three weeks from when she came to me with the idea until we'd already met with Jane signed a lease and had the keys. Wow. That's great. And so the, yeah. And so the store was born. And we opened the shop, but I was still at Pielago and I still had the obligations up at the Arboretum for my garden. So it was all a bit crazy. Hence why my garden at home is not up to, not exactly where I would like it to be right now, but it's okay. It's okay, everything keeps growing, does what it wants to do. And for our listeners, what can they expect at the store? I was sort of saying to Averill earlier, it's Averill and I are basically the target market. Yeah, it's like, it's our type of place. I try really hard. I mean, obviously it's a bit eclectic for what's out there. I try really hard though to have... plants that are different, both indoors and outdoors every week, because I'm only little, I'm not competing with the big guys. I can't. But I have a really strong focus on anything that I've had trouble finding or sourcing for myself. Yes. That's what I have. Yep. Yes, we actually interviewed a horticulturist last week and she was saying the other sort of things that she likes to carry are things that aren't easy to get but have a lot of nostalgia for people. take a cottage garden herbal, there's some of the things that they remember having, but that you know, you can't necessarily get them at the garden stores now. Absolutely. And sometimes it's the little things as well. Like I do stock seeds. Yes. But the only seeds I have out on display, readily available, are what you would actually be planting now. Yes. So seasonal seeds. What a bloody good idea. And some of the things where it's getting a little bit too late to start from seed now, that's what I have a seedling set. Yeah. Because it makes sense. If you're in there shopping, it's going to be something that you want to plant now. Like I can be taken away sometimes in the bigger stores where I'd be like, oh, I like the look of that. I like it, but then I'll go home and then I'll be like, I can't really plant that now. And then it goes into my basket. Never to be seen again, excuse my language. That's where I think a lot of new gardeners get... discouraged because they don't necessarily think they've got a green thumb because they come home with something and put it in the ground and don't realise. And it's not the right time. When I first garden, I didn't actually know that you had to grow things at certain times. I know. Your mum was like, oh dear, oh no. And also Tracy, I used to put individual seeds in punnets and I did at chives and I did one seed in each punnet and I was like, oh. And so I'd write these little notes like... So chives more abundantly. I tend to go the other way and I put in way too many. During lockdown, I managed to start selling tomato seedlings because I ended up with over 400 tomatoes. Cause you always say when you're like, Yeah. Oh, that's so wonderful. So if you're looking for something to put in the ground, you can either get a seed or a seedling that you can go home and do straight away that day. Yeah, and I also try and be realistic for how things work out for most of us. So when I do the seedlings, like at the moment, I don't have them in like little seedling pots. I actually have them in the big pots. Yeah, that you can leave. And life gets in the way and you don't plant it for two weeks. Yeah. It's okay. Yeah, that's okay. It doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah, definitely. It definitely helps that person when they're in shopping with you, that you can share that knowledge with them. And because I know when I met you one day in your beautiful store, you had beautiful garlic there that was grown locally. And I know a good bit of like I plant my own garlic and then I'll, you know, use it every year as seed. But I just knew the value of that. Like I was like. That is amazing. And I did tell a few people, go in there. I think I might have tagged. I think I might have tagged in like a Facebook group as well. The Urban Homesteading group. I think I tagged because someone was looking for garlic and. It is a great product to sell the garlic because it's one of those bulbs that produces better when it's grown locally. So if you can buy it from someone who's grown it in the same conditions that you're in, it will. likely do better for you as well. You know sometimes when you get them online you don't know where the seed stock could be coming from. I actually approached Hazel, the Facebook group, the Homesteaders Facebook group which you were just talking about. It's actually from going through there and I've been a member of it for quite a few years now. Yes. When I saw Hazel had up on there, so Hazel from Parker's Patch down in Borough. Yeah. She has a beautiful market garden and she does subscription boxes, food boxes for the local community in his part of South when I saw that she had garlic available in bulk to sell I actually reached out to her. Yeah perfect. This is me, this is who I am, I have a shop and I'm trying really hard to stock things as local as possible. Absolutely yeah. Which we have trouble getting but also bringing them in at the best possible price point because a lot of the time and it was something that used to frustrate me so much especially with the garlic that You can buy it in from somewhere and it's a reputable source. But like you said, you don't really know the true heritage of it. You have a premium because it's got a name associated with it. But then you're also paying postage and then you don't even know when it arrives, if it's been kicked around the warehouse, if it's been left, you know, sitting in the full sun, just overheating. You just don't know. So that's what I'm trying really hard with. And it's hard. It's a tricky one with the consumer too, because you get a head of garlic at a major supermarket for a dollar, right? Yes. When people are buying seed garlic, you know, it's seven or $10, they're like, well, what a rip off. But it's a really different product and you can't just stick the stuff from the supermarket in the ground like you can. But I think if you've grown your own garlic, I mean... When you talk about that person selling, they go like, I could never sell my precious garlic. I get so attached to it. That's right. You do. You do. And it does make sense that the more you grow your own garlic, your own seed, it gets better and better and better. I mean, we're probably at what generation are we at from some of that garlic? What are you up to? I think it's the eighth generation grown here locally. Yes, that I know of. Yeah. Yes. Who knows before that? But the elephant garlic that I've got is hundreds of years grown locally. Yeah. And they're huge. Yeah. And so we say to people, and people always laugh at me and they go, you know, if you keep doing this, we're not going to have a reason to come back. And I'm like, you will, because there'll be something better and different that you would like, because that's what I say to people. You know, you need to put in the biggest clove of garlic to get the biggest head of garlic out. Yes. So this is the urge to eat those. And that's what you need to be planting at each year. And I talk through the process. Same with like your shallots and your chives. I'm like, well, just buy the packet now. Chive the, yeah. My single chive. One chive. Yes. But you've got to remember, so I remember this from my dad. My dad spoke to all his gardening followers through the years and he would give them all this sound advice and a lot of it would be that they wouldn't have to come back to him. Like he'd tell them, you know, how to plant their carrots. so that, you know, Whitefly wouldn't attack them or that they wouldn't jump. So you space them out and they can't jump across from one to the other. But he also sold insecticides, you know, so then, well, they don't have to come back to buy that. But you become what I know as a TBA in the sales world, because my background is sales, and a TBA is a trusted business advisor. And you become that, you become that source of information for that person. And it's so important, especially in gardening, because... We make so many mistakes. Like... The learning process, every time the season changes and it becomes more unpredictable, we learn from it. That's right. And we want people to succeed. And it's... Because people wanna keep gardening when they're happy and they see the results. That's right. That's why I... And it's not a mistake, sorry. It's an experiment, as we say. That's why I recommend you should have a minimum of 100 experiments at all times. So that it doesn't matter when some of them fail. Yeah. You just move on to the next thing, you know. That's right. I can't tell you how many seeds I've... in the ground that haven't worked out or especially at the beginning when I didn't know they came up at certain times of the year or some need sunlight, some don't want sunlight, some need scarification, some need water, some don't like, I was just throwing them all in everywhere seeing what happened. And you know what, sometimes things that people said shouldn't work, worked. They worked. Yeah, you find your way. I have an avocado tree as big as my house. Do you have one in Canberra? You've got an avocado tree in Canberra. Yeah, but it's only growing up now to a time because I've lost track of exactly how old it is, but I know it's... somewhere between six and eight years now. So it's only just coming up to being old enough if it is going to flower. Yes, because you need a male and female for avocado. No, so there's type A and type B. Yeah. But each avocado tree itself, it'll open, it'll have male flowers, but not flowers. And then like four hours later, the females will open. Right. So whilst... A type A has male and female that open at different times. A type B also does that, but that's where they're at opposites, where they're pollinating. So I'm just gonna look like a mad person. And pollinating all the avocados. Absolutely, I'm gonna camp in my front yard because they only do it for like a flower for like two to three days. Really? So I'm just gonna camp out there and do it myself. I've already decided. You can have a flowering party. We'll all come to you with a paintbrush. I'm committed. I'm committed. I have not waited this long and I've only got the one tree because the second one just died. We'll play Barry White. That's so beautiful. So good. That's amazing because they do say that you've obviously got a beautiful microclimate like your forest garden, you know, like your food forest. Yeah, so. Our space is true north and the avocado is up against the house. Yeah. So you've got a beautiful little mic. That's a perfect example of a microclimate. Um, cause someone was asking me the other day and it was about lemongrass. And I was like, may not. I don't think it likes Canberra. However, if you have a good little microclimate, it would probably do really, really well. But I grew great lemongrass here. Did you? Just in my little bed again, I just saw it at the store and I was like, oh yeah, cool. I'd love to grow that. And I was like, I'll overwinter it. It doesn't overwinter though. Yeah. Well that's, yeah, it doesn't like the cold. It's nice. I like a nice sunny warm patch. It is possible. If you tuck it in. So obviously microclimate is an important part. Yeah. But if you, you basically just give it the best chance you can. If you've got a little greenhouse and it doesn't have to be heated or anything, you can absolutely move the pot in there. It'll keep going overwinter. What about just covering it with like a little bit of? Closet? Well, it's probably big. Yeah, you can, but I mean, you would have to be pretty organized. I am not that organized to do that. So it either has to stay in a nice form position or go undercover somewhere. Bernadette's pretty organized. I just like things a certain way. Since podcasting with Bernadette, yes. Too funny. It's good. that out of me. Yeah, I must admit that does. It does just come into play, doesn't it? When families are involved. Tracy, there's a question that we ask all of our guests on the show if you'd like to talk about either your favourite or a very special gardening memory or your first gardening memory perhaps? See for me it's a bit different as far as favourites go it um it always changes you know like The day that I tried to walk around the corner to get to the garden to discover my two year old had the hose on full blast and discovered that if he pulled the trigger, I would get wet. So I have moments like that. And then there's the moments where people have left thank you cards in the letterbox just for doing what I do. Yeah. Goals. Yeah. And then I also can't see it from here because it's outside, but plant which I found oh probably I would have been probably about 20. I was helping my Nan move some things and I lifted up the Choco vine because she lived in Sydney and I found this massive Jade plant underneath and she's like oh I forgot about that. She remembered bringing it over from Bondi in like about 1950 and then she hadn't seen it again but I found it so that's always been really special and I keep that. I've looked after it ever since because we don't actually know the age of it. We just know that it moved with her in the early 1960s. Isn't that amazing? Actually, you know what? The day that I was in your store, there was a lady in there talking about, we were talking about, we were all having a chat, and she's talking about, yeah, she was talking about a fern that she had and she had it for about 30 years. You probably don't remember because you have so many conversations, but I left that your store that day thinking, it's true, like, you can have plants for, I mean, I have some of my plants now nearly eight years when I think about it. And that time has flown. Sashule gave that to you as a cutting. Technically, it is still that other plant. Yeah. It still lives on, like it can keep living on. That's right, yeah. At the horticultural show, the last one they had in the succulent section, one of them said, I'm over 65 years old. Really? And that's just like, can you imagine someone's just had that succulent? I mean, you know, sitting on the kitchen table for 65 years. 65 years? I didn't win against that one. I'm like, this is a week old. Oh, wow. I mean, like even a succulent, because a lot of them will flower or... shoot off a baby or reach for the light. Mine, mine, mine tend to reach, reach for the light and then they become, you know, wouldn't be string. Streculant. That's exactly what it is. So yeah, it is, yeah, it's, it's a special memory for people to hold, isn't it? That they have that plant and yeah. Yeah. That's the connection. So I have the connection with my nan from that plant, but then somewhere along the lines she had, um, propagated one and given it to my dad. So now I also have this one as well from when he died. So it's kind of like family of the plant. That's just a waste of memory and a connection. Good memories, definitely. Well, I don't know about the hose one being a good memory, but it actually reminded me when I was a kid, mum took a phone call, she was filling the water bed and she came back and I was watering the walls of the house to make the house grow. I'm just inside the house had just drenched the whole inside of the room watering and mom came in she screamed oh are you watering the inside of the house? Oh yeah naughty. That's why I don't have one specific one because it just depends on yeah and the mood that you're in and what you're thinking about at the time. What are you doing in the garden at the moment? Have you got anything that you've just started or thinking of starting or bulbs or anything like that? Oh, no, it's action stations this week. This is where we'll go. So the tomatoes came out yesterday. Such a bold choice. I know, I know, but the tomatoes are out. So I'm looking at a basket of green tomatoes right now. Yes. So they've come out. We need to, which means we also need to. switch over the compost. So the compost has been sitting there waiting, we'll be digging the compost out. The zucchinis haven't actually been pulled yet. They're still juicing, so. I'm still getting the juice. And I think we could get nearly another week and a bit out of them directly. Yeah, right. I think so. Because the open nights, we've had these couple of low overnight temps, but they're going back up a bit again. So we still have a chance that's hanging on. So everything could be coming out. Compost needs to be turned. the compost that's ready, getting the beds sorted, brassicas are going in. I'm struggling with the brassicas, I struggle every year and I struggle with pests eating the leaves. Is it cabbage moth caterpillars maybe or maybe it's slugs, I get a lot of slugs. Do you get much pest pressure on your brassicas? Everyone's going to get hammered by a cabbage moth at the beginning of the season. It's just the way it is. Okay. So the cabbage moth, when the weather's still nice. They are everywhere. They love it. Different things you can do. I've had a lot of success this year with the cabbage moth deterrents. I buy them in and sell them, but you can make them. As in the little moths on the stick? Yes. Yeah, because they're quite territorial, aren't they? There's a couple of things behind it, but basically it works off the premise that when they lay their eggs, they want to give their eggs the best chance of viability. So if they can see that there's other moths already really active in that area, and then you go and put some nice little nasturtium or sacrificial plant nearby, they'll just be attracted to that sacrificial plant. I've got so many nasturtiums that I've grown out there that are now taking over my entire garden that I've grown as this sacrificial plant. And now all I've ended up is with stinky nasturtium and my brassica still gets smacked. Have it on. You have a lot of nasturtiums out there. It's popping the deterrent. But you can also, there's a few different products on the market, obviously, but another one, which is a bit of fun that people can try is making their own lactose spray. Oh yeah. Well, my daughter's lactose free, so I guess I could repurpose all the lactose. What is that? How do you make that? Um, in a summarized form, there's a lot of recipes online. A homesteaders, um, group is where I originally got onto it and started trying it. She's writing it. So if you get some, if you get some rice and you rinse it, keep that water, leave it sitting on the side until you can see a bit of stuff happening on top. A bit of action, a bit of bubble, a bit of fermentation. No, I know in the first instance it'll look more like a film. Okay. Yeah, so then you want to add in your dairy then, like add in your milk and then you leave that to sit and it will split. You'll get like a curd. So you pull that out and then your liquid that's left over, you give that a food source. Gosh, this is out my alley. Like a food source, a sugar source. And then that's when the fermentation will start taking place. And then you spray that on the foliage, do you? Yeah. And so then when your little pestis come and eat it, they just eat the bacteria and it makes them explode from the inside out. the revenge I'm looking for. Thank you Tracy. I like this phrase brilliant. There's a few different things like that. I just try everything and hope for the best really. Yep. And it can also use that when you've got your meal juice coming in. Yes, that's right. Because that's very prevalent at the moment, especially on the Kirkivets, you're going to have your powdery. Yes, because my tomatoes. Because I've always been a bit worried, like where you do like a milk spray and then I'm like, oh, and I'm just going to have so many rodents around the place. But I like the idea. I like the idea. Spraying cheese. Yeah. And then they're like, thank you. My husband's like, because obviously we have had two snakes, actually very close to our house, one quite close to my veggie garden. And I'm like, oh, and then there'll be rodents in there and then I'll be farming snakes. So yeah, I'm just, but I like the thoughts of leaving it. Like it's not pure. It's not pure milk that you're spraying. I always thought it was like a pure milk spray. But it's a different thing again. Is it? Yeah. Okay. So you lactose spray does not resemble dairy in any way, shape or form by the time you're using it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Cause you're, you're just using the fermented liquid. Once it has split and you've removed the curd, you can't actually, it doesn't resemble dairy anymore. Cause you're just using that liquid. Yes. And that liquid you've then given that feed to that carbohydrate source. Yeah. So more in, because when you put molasses in, it's more of like a browning type colour because it's taken on the you've used. So don't think milk or dairy. You're not using that at all. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's a different thing altogether. I'm going to get onto this lactose spray. I like that idea. I'll just take a mixed approach. So in between homemade remedies and things that I've like I just grew it up myself and used sacrificial plants, companion plants to keep some things away from other things. Deterrence. I'd like to say that I net but I'm a game. I netted and I netted all of them inside. So it's all the effort of netting and closing and then they've just had a field day. I think you have to as well get the balance like you try and have to feed your plants up as well don't you to fend. I mean they all need a little bit of a... To be strong enough. And I guess that's the idea of starting them now, isn't it? Starting them now and they establish, they've established a bit and then by the time you get to spring and they've overwintered, they've just got that good head start behind them. So your foods like your sea salt or your food to soil, because I know you sell food to soil, which is a great one. We've had Josie and Annabel on for a chat and it was, yeah, it was like that made sense to me that you make them strong and healthy and then it's kind of like your own body. during the flu season. The healthier plants. Yes, yeah. At times with the brassicas, I've learned over the years, instead of making it difficult, when I get them started as seedlings, they sit on the table by the back door. I use my bridal veil. I don't know, the kids must have been playing with it and I pulled it out of the fruit box one day when they were using it. So I sit that on a pot in the middle and then that's just spread out over the top of all the seedlings. Yeah. And then I keep water there next to it so I don't forget to water. Because it's always when you're in a rush or you're leaving or you're doing something, you're like, oh yeah, I really need to do that. Yes. So I water them, pop them up into bigger pots. And that's why there are bigger pots out of the shop. Because now it doesn't matter that I haven't got them in the ground yet. And I wanted to keep the tomatoes and the zucchini a bit longer because they can still get really good growth on them. They can still grow. Yeah. And that stronger, that bigger seedling will survive. And you can plant it deeper. And then when you plant them deeper and they've got that bigger root base on them, that will help to stabilise them when the awful weather does come and it's windier and everything else to go with it. So sometimes it's just little tips and tricks that help. And a lot of people don't realise the smaller the pot size, the quicker they're gonna dry out. So the more attention they're gonna need. Yes, yes. And I think with brassicas too, there's such a range. So, you know. find what works for you easily, I guess, that bok choy and stuff like that can be really easy. Yeah. Maybe if you're trying to do like a Romanesco broccoli or something, it's gonna be a bit trickier, but just start with something. Although we had some good outcomes with Romanesco last year, didn't we? I mean. Yeah, we are very accomplished. I find Romanesco and purple cauliflower, I find are a lot easier than white cauliflower for this region. Yes, yeah. I've never had a white cauliflower. I have, but they've been pretty small. Like they haven't been big like my Romanesco. And yeah, you're right. Purple broccoli. And I like the broccolini. Like, I've had good success. Is it the Spigleroo, Spigleroo? Milligrews that are on Gardening Australia. It's a broccoli and it just grows these sort of single flowers and you snap them off. Oh yeah. And grab handfuls as you go. That's probably it. I think that's, yeah, I might have grown some. A couple of different ones. So there's green. So there's Italian sprouting broccoli. So you've got your regular broccolis, which there is a huge range of. Then you've got your broccolinis and you've got your Italian sprouting broccolis, which a lot of people would think are broccolini. Right, yeah. Then we also have, well, that's a beautiful, purple sprouting broccoli. And everyone thinks that it's failed, but it hasn't failed. It just takes a while. Ridiculous in our... So by putting the different things in all at the same time, we normally start harvesting in our place from April through to November, December. And even though they've all gone in at the same time, they will all actually come through and be ready at different times. Interesting. Purple sprouting broccoli is always the last. Wow. It grows massive and everyone always thinks that it's failed and it's just foliage and nothing else. It's just not for the impatient. That's when it comes into its own. It's okay because you're not necessarily really needing that space at that time of the year, any like over like for it to be growing. It's good to have that timing where you have ones coming through. I'm really still learning about planting, that succession planting. Yes, that is tricky. It's good that you can have a variety like that takes longer. I suppose it's like our potatoes. But also having the efficiency of starting it all in one day, but harvesting it longer. Like that's a very efficient way to do things. Yeah. Yeah. The time you get sick of one and you don't want to see it anymore because you can't stand it, the next one's really... The next one, that's right. You can just move on. You just move on. Yeah. And like, I know at our Romanesco last year, I found like their leaves, you know, the stems in the middle, they were so tasty. Did you? Yes. I was snapping... I've still got some in the freezer. Oh, gee, like I was snapping them off in the garden nearly, I suppose, wanting to compost them. But then I started nibbling on them and I was like... What am I doing? This is a meal in itself. Yeah, the whole plant. Like most brassicas, the whole plant is pretty much edible. Yeah. Most brassicas are like that. And even if, that's another good thing about brassicas, even if it sort of fails, you can nearly always get the leaves. Like I've had a batch of kohlrabi that never really bulged, but you can still get the leaves. You can still do something. Yeah. I mean, I suppose as it gets on, when it's flowering, it's a little bit bitter, isn't it? But things like that don't bother me as long as it's edible. I'm not going to die from it. I'll feed it to my family. Yeah. And I've discovered when it comes to brassicas, it doesn't matter whether it's kale or any of the other ones. If you get those leaves and you put them in the oven, you put enough Parmesan on them, the kids are going to eat them. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Crisp the top up. Yeah. Yeah. Just be with trees they don't even notice. With your store as well, I noticed that you would support like a local business. I know you had some beautiful worms. Yes. And then the same people had made this beautiful box as well, like a composting, or is it a worm farm box? Tell me about that. Yes, Tillinger Farm. So your Tillinger Farm, it's a lovely couple that are down there, they're retired, or semi-retired down to the coast. Yeah. And on their property, there's an old sawmill. And so all of that timber, they have access to this beautiful timber, and then they're quite clever and crafty. So not only do they grow the worms and breed the beautiful compost worms, they've got these really cute boxes. So you can have your wooden box sitting on your garden bed. Yeah. And you use that for your two compartments. It's like a bottomless one, isn't it? It's pretty much a box with the lid. Looks beautiful, but when you're using your worm farm sitting on the soil like that, not only are you producing a beautiful compost, but you're feeding the ground that it's sitting on. So once your compost is ready, you can switch over to the other side. So you've got one sitting whilst you've got one side active. But then once that compost is ready, you just move the box to another area where you want to replenish the soil because whatever you sit it on, it's just going to be beautiful. And it breaks down a lot quicker that way too. And yes, I find when it's sitting in I mean, they can move through a lot of compost really quickly. That's right. Well, if the weather's too hot, they can get down into the ground to cool off. And if the ground's too wet, they can come up to an area where they're comfortable. Yeah. So it gives them the choice of moving backwards and forwards. They've also got the cutest little hen boxes. So for you, one of these chickens. Yeah. They've, I've only got a single box in the store at the moment. but they make them to order. So you can have like a single- I'll have to pop in and have a look at that. I'm due to redo my chicken area. If you had a God forbid a fire or a flood or something like that, and you could only grab one plant from the house, what would you grab? Nan's bonsai. Oh yeah. Yeah, that one's hands down. Yeah. That one, there's just no, no question. Yeah. Nan's bonsai, then the kids. They kind of would look after themselves. Tracy, so people can get in contact with you obviously at Dirty Janes and your beautiful store. You also have, is it an Instagram and a Facebook page? I can be reached on socials, either Facebook or Instagram. I have a new website which we've just launched. I'm still working on it. So don't hold it against me. It's not at its best yet, but we're getting there. That's okay. Well, we'll see that come through soon then. Yes, the website, in-store, socials. Yeah, or just if you contact dirty james or via anywhere out of the other mediums, you'll see my number there. People welcome to send a message through, we're here to help. That's beautiful. Thank you so much for your time. And thanks for chatting to us. Yeah. I'd loved, I think we'd both love maybe one day to come and see the garden, that would be amazing. Oh yeah, it would be good. Your forest, have a lovely evening. Take care, bye. Bye. You too, bye. Oh, Bernadette, there we go. That was an exciting chat for me. I love when you meet someone who just loves gardening as much as you do and you could just talk about gardening all day. Absolutely, yes. And knows, obviously, her stuff. Yes, and can help. With your issues. That's right. I really loved how she was saying the stuff in her story, seeds that you can plant. I know, that's very good. Seedlings you can put in the ground now. It takes some of that guesswork out for people so that you're not necessarily... setting yourself up to fail, but setting yourself up to succeed. And just all the amazing tropical things that she grows. Pomegranate. I mean, she's 10 minutes from us. We could have pomegranate tree. You could definitely have it in your area. Don't know about me. As well in the store that you can buy beautiful secateurs and. baskets, harvest baskets. Lovely gifts for people. If you know someone who loves gardening, you can give them some lovely gifts. Yeah, and a thing for looking after your plants. I don't know whether she twined. That's one thing that I look for, twine. Have you got a twine tin? I don't have a twine tin, but I have a twine. rod my twine sits on. I nearly bought you a twine tin. And it's like a tin with a hole in the top and the twine just slowly unravels out at the top. You see I've got one it's like a spool. Yes. Think of a spool and the twine sits on it and it's got a cutting function on the top. Oh that's good. Yeah you'll have to it's always sitting out in my kitchen somewhere. That's good. Because I'm always twining down the coast. Oh well I've and I love butcher's twine. You love all twine. Oh yeah, Butcher's twine is very good. And my kids are always crafting with it. I get a bit angry. I'd be always like, leave my twine alone. That and sticky tape. Cause I quite like that paper tape. You know, the beautiful paper tape you can buy. What are you cooking for dinner, mum? The dog? You use my stuff, I use yours? How's it feel? Well, until next time, Averill. Salon l'Arth, Bernadette. Salon l'Arth, comranca. Gurub margur.