Ep 017 - Seasons, Connection to Country and Edible Natives featuring Adam Shipp

Welcome to Seedy Chats. Hello and welcome back. Welcome to Seedy Chats, the podcast where imperfect gardeners, Avril, that's me, and Bernadette. Hi, that's me. Chat about our favorite topics, gardening and life. So whether you're new to gardening, a seasoned pro or somewhere in between, join us on our journey to be mindful in gardening and life in general. Hello. How are you, Bernadette? I'm good, Afro. How are you today? I'm doing really well. You've made me a lovely cup of tea. Oh, that's the licorice tea that you've now got me addicted to. Licorice and mint. I'm not a licorice fan, so anyone that goes, oh, when they hear the word licorice, it doesn't taste really like licorice. It's just really refreshing and a nice drink that gives it a bit of sweetness, the licorice. Yeah, it does. It's predominantly, I think, if you can't... stomach licorice. It's like a digest blend I suppose. That's what's in the digest blend. You've got something else to answer for today as well, Averill. I told you I was at the hospital visiting someone today, walking my 17 minutes to get from the car park to the ward because it's such a nightmare at the Canberra Hospital at the moment. And I'll be mick wrinkles, I walked all the way back to the car and this poor old lady didn't know where she was going and I just thought, what would Averill do? LAUGHS And so I walked her all the way and she was so slow. Oh, brain a dead. I nearly shoved her in a wheelchair and rolled her in. Why didn't you? Was there no wheelchairs around? You sometimes see random ones around there. There was at reception, but we had to make it all the way. It was quite, it's quite a walk. I don't know. It's terrible. They nearly need like a bit of a trolley bay, like a wheelchair bay. Or like when you go skiing and you're learning how to ski, they need like a rope, a rope pool. You could just throw the, throw the elder. Just throw them on the right pole and tug them up to main reception. Or not even that sounds very dangerous, but just a little travel agent, maybe? Oh yeah. That might be, you know, when the babies, when the littleies are, I think they have a carpet, a magic carpet. That's what I meant, a magic carpet. That's what I'm saying, a magic carpet, that's what I'm saying. Oh, I'd vision of a tea bar or something, you know. I've been to get there, there's different frames, like your ski, like your poles. If you weren't injured on the way into the hospital, you will be on the way out. It could be a good business plan, I mean, for them. Were you saying that you had some Mother's Day crack overall? Oh, I did. We've had Mother's Day since we've chatted. Yes. And I did have, so Sunday morning, my children made me breakfast with Craig, which was beautiful. And then I came out to the kitchen and I was thinking, that's lovely, there's like a lovely bacon and egg roll there for me and there's a glass and it looked like there was wine in the glass. Did I show you the picture? Yes, it did look like wine, I mean, right up my alley. It's a great summer's day. Big drinkers, especially like this hour of the morning and I said nothing and I sat down and I was kind of looking and smiling at Craig. And then I went. Ava, what's in the class? I think has she gone into the fridge? She opened a bottle, you know, a bottle of wine. It's like a bit of a health and safety issue going on here. Has she, have they done this? Where's the rest of it? Well, yeah, because Callum, the odd time, would take my drink and I'd be like, where's my drink? I'd be like, I drank it, mummy. And I'm like, what? No! It's not, oh god. Yeah, someone told me once. I'll have docs on to me soon. Someone told me once when you have kids, let them drink your coffee or have a sip of your wine and they'll find it so gross that they'll never want another one. Oh no, that doesn't have my mind. Opposite with Charlotte, every morning she's like coffee, coffee. I'm like, no. No, yeah, because you have a milky coffee. Milky. Give her a black coffee. Sucker. Well, I because I was brought up with in a pub. And so my dad. Yeah, there was a lot of alcohol, free flowing alcohol around the place. And my mum was always of that concept. She would let her have a try and she won't like it. And I'm not a big drinker. Did you know when they... Oh, I did. Yeah, I've got... You know, the dregs of when you're pulling pints is like a tray, like a slush tray. Oh, God, oh, God, overall. That's what you drink if you lose a drinking game. Oh, yeah. what you just poured it into a pint glass and drink it. You wouldn't know what you'd be getting. Yeah, it was probably like, stage and... Influenza. Yeah. I know it wasn't the bottom of people's glasses. Oh, so it's not the thing that they sit on after you've pulled them, like wringing out the mat. Oh, God. Oh, God, I just had my... The ick. Did I give you the ick? Yes. No, no. So when you're pulling a pint underneath, I suppose like a bit of a, like in a coffee machine, you've got a tray. Yes. That will take the excess away. Like it's like a drainage tray. Oh yes, that's relatively clean. Yeah, but you'd have everything mixed in there. Like whatever. Yeah, I suppose. It's the iced tea of the beer world. Yeah, like a, yeah. Kombucha. Averil's kombucha. Yes. Yeah. So that was often poured into glasses. and drunk but I don't know whether... You know what, practising no waste from a very young age, I'm quite proud of you there, Evelyn. Yes, I was. Yeah, absolutely. Waste not want not, Mum. That's right. Yeah. But anyway, going back to my story, Mother's Day glass. Yes, it looked like a glass of wine. And I was like, Eva, what's this? And she was like, oh, mummy, it's sparkling water with your tea bag dunked into it. It did look like a wine. Oh bless. And I looked at Craig and I was like, this is love and I drank it. Was it good? Was she under something? I think she's got a beautiful product because it was like this tea bag. But effervescent. With a bit of a sparkle in it. I mean it was just tap water. Oh no it wasn't, it was sparkling water, yeah, yeah. It was beautiful. Oh bless. It's cute that she thought of something that you'd like. Like that is really sweet. Yeah, because she knows I like sparkling water. And she knows that I love the tea. So she probably her whole thought behind it was I'll just mix both them together. So, very to dead, very exciting today. We have Adam Ship coming to have a chat with us. Adam is a proud Wiradjuri man. His bloodlines through his father extend across Dubbo, parks and other regions of central west New South Wales. Adam was born. raised and lives on Ngunnawal country with his wife and three children. Adam has worked in the environmental natural resource management sector, showcasing his love of culture since 2011. And in 2018, Adam started his own business full time called Urubai. Urubai means seed in Wiradjuri language. Does that mean we're having a Urubai chat today? We're having a Urubai chat today. Lovely. This exemplifies Adam's deep passion for native plants, plant use and he feels as a seed his business and passion for sharing culture is always growing. Yes and he talks about that image of the seed representing his business you know that is quite a symbolic. image for him. You know it's the beginning of all life, it's showing, you know it's got the root that's connecting to the earth and you know the start of many things, the start of hope so. It's a beautiful visual isn't it? A good visual for the business. I mean I think speaking from experience we could say that we are don't mind a little seed ourselves. You're a bye Chuts. Definitely. Okay. Adam, thank you so much for coming and chatting to us. I'm Avril, by the way. Nice to meet you. I'm Bernadette. Nice to put the names to pay for you. We do an acknowledgement to Country on all of our episodes, but as a special treat having you today, we were wondering if you might not mind to do our acknowledgement today. Yeah. Yeah, sure. No worries. Well, yeah, I would love to acknowledge first and foremost that I'm on Raradjuri Country out here in Dubbo. New South Wales and this is actually where my ancestral roots lie. So I pay my respects to my elders past and present and also acknowledge the elders of the Rajdhri nation here within the Dubbo area. I also acknowledge that you both coming from Ngaul and Nambri countries, are correct? That's right. Canberra and Queymyn and Goongong I think. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so I acknowledge the traditional custodians of that land and those lands and also obviously the surrounding regions because a lot of that country through there is a very important place. I did grow up in Canberra and I know that it's very much an area that a lot of our different groups came through for different things, ceremonial and kinship and you know so I also pay respect to people, Rajri people that travel through there. So very important place. And yeah, it's great to be able to chat to you guys today. So thank you. Great. Thank you for that, Adam. Just so that our listeners know who you are. Where did it all start for you, Adam? Well, I suppose I always obviously very interested in the kind of, you know, our culture and things have grown up as young fellow in Canberra and with my father very much instilling that in us. and always kind of having that connection back to home, to Dubbo as well. So we would always constantly be on the road back and forth. So it's actually good to know, it's actually nice to finally live here. And are you in Dubbo at the moment? Yeah, I am. Yeah, so we packed up the family and moved from Canberra July last year. So you've come full circle. from sort of the trip your dad did and now you've gone back with your kids. Wow. Pretty much, yeah. Which is, it actually was a little bit, for my father at first, it was a little bit, oh really, because he kinda, for him it was a different place growing up, you know. And he kind of felt like he escaped that place, you know, to build a better life and to go to Canberra, the big city, you know. Or opportunities. Opportunities. made a family, made a very good, you know, thing for himself, you know, up there or down there in Canberra. And so I guess initially he was kind of like, why are you going back there? But then he kind of got around to the fact that obviously you're very deeply, you know, rooted in your in culture and connection and you need to be there. That's the place you need to be. Of course, I met my wife in Canberra who's a, she's Wellington. her people from, so not Wellington, New Zealand, Wellington, New South Wales, which is right next to Dubbo. She grew up in Dubbo. So it kind of, you know, it made sense because we both have big families out this way. And so our three young children can grow up being very connected to country and family and everything. So that's beautiful. Yeah, yeah, that makes my heart very happy because I was I was going to say Where's your wife from? But it makes sense that you've made that journey. And I can feel like, because I'm not from Australia, I'm from Ireland. And I always kind of think my heart is always torn. And so it's beautiful that you're able to travel home and you've got extended families there. Well done. Thank you. So it's been good. I mean, I... Are you missing the Canberra cold as we walk in the winter? Yes. It's very cold here this morning. Very much. Yeah. Look, it's not too much warmer in Dubbo this time of year. However, it's like an extra four degrees usually. It makes the difference though. It makes a difference. I put four degrees on every day and Canberra pretty much is what you got in Dubbo. So it's sort of just a bit more manageable and actually even... Like I was only reflecting recently, just walking out at night and not like feeling like you're freezing to death. Like it's actually, you're in a jumper, but it's like, Oh, that's all right. I could actually sit out here. Like it's quite nice. Like that was only last night. You know, I sort of walked out and thought, Oh, it's cool, but it's not like that camera, camera call where you just like get me back inside. I need to be back inside. So I have sort of really enjoyed those subtle differences of just a bit warm up. space, one more climate. Speaking about Canberra Colts, something that you told me, talked about the seasons and that First Nations people have their own seasons and that changes depending on what part of Australia they're living in. So can you talk, it was really fascinating. Can you talk to me about the seasons and how the seasons change, perhaps in Ngunnawal country versus the Wurundjeri area that you're in now? Yeah, sure. Yeah, that's a great question and there is a lot of interest around it now and I'm glad that there is a lot of interest because it's sort of starting to make sense to maybe follow our traditional seasonal ways rather than try to cram this kind of, I guess, aspect of seasons from another, you know, from a whole other hemisphere really. And maybe with these extreme seasons that we've been having, people have been realising that date calendar isn't always applicable? That's right, yeah. So no, really good point and obviously within those seasons there were actually cycles of things as well. So you know that helped you to understand things like maybe fire, like you know there was more extremes of that fire cycle every sort of 15 or so years of where that could happen. So things would change in terms of the way you managed country or whatever in that period or there'll be cycles of snow. So for Canberra... there's definitely cycles where you can kind of start to follow when you go back and you go through that kind of loop, like those periods where you might get some snow in the town, you know, and that's kind of these snow cycles that we have where there's a year or two where it's really heavier kind of snow. So am I correct to understand then that, you know, that season would start for the Ngunnawal people when the environment tells them, rather than, hey, it's the first of June, it's winter, it's more okay we've seen these first blossoms that indicates now that we're moving into this cycle. And then other things will happen along the way you're in that cycle? Definitely yeah so um yeah so you're exactly right there so things um something I can think of for Nangal country particularly that's very much a really good guide every year is the early wattle so the early wattle flower and I often talk about that one because it's a great indicator so the early wattle flowers generally around this sort of April period, like late April into May. And it's generally gives you about a three week grace of before that really heavy fog that we always experience sort of mid to late May in the ACT and then snow. So I think camera's already been hit with a bit of snow. Yes, around a couple of weeks ago. Weeks ago, so yeah, you usually have that first kind of spout. and then it will sort of ease a little bit and then there'll be the more consistent snow and things coming in the high country. So that kind of that flower shows and particularly Nangal people but also I guess other people like I was talking about at the start where other mob were coming into country to do different things so Bogong Moss obviously a big one. Yes. bring to summer period. I just crashed my car recently because there was a bogon moth on my leg. Yeah yeah so see so for there like they start to leave traditionally anyway and things have changed a little bit obviously but traditionally they tend to leave those high mountains around the kind of March to April period so they leave the bogon moth um back journey back to there where they actually um spawn from. in Queensland. Oh, too many produce. Yeah. Gosh, it's a big journey. Big journey, yeah. And so for some of those visiting peoples, like Rogerie and Ewan that were coming through, it was like, okay, that's, it's our time to leave as well. We'll follow the Bogon, we'll follow, you know, the flowering of the wattle or whatever, we'll leave. It's going to get really harsh here. I, working with some local Nungawal people many years ago. some of them would sort of talk about what they kind of were taught in terms of some of the like the women and the younger children might have moved to warmer areas where some of the men would have stayed yeah right to eat more oh yeah this is where that really cold here yeah the harsher environment so groups were kind of like populations of kind of ebb and flow in those in different areas because some of it's getting too harsh and inhabitable. So some people would kind of move, but then they come back. And so this is that whole, I guess that interconnection with kinship as well, like in different groups and where you can kind of travel because you're related to different people into different lines and different parts of country. So either Ewan or Adrie or, so it would kind of mean that they could kind of travel through. to different spaces. At different times of the year, depending on how hospitable it was. That's right. And also resources. I mean, resources was a really big important thing from a traditional sense. So, I mean, I don't wanna talk too much for the normal people, but like that's just kind of things that they've, you know, been lucky to be shared with them on things like that. And so those indicators and those times are really important because you start to understand. Well, we're going to have less of something. It's going to actually get really cold. We need to find a place where it's going to, obviously, um, we're going to find like a micro climate, for example. Um, black mountains, a really good micro climate. Um, so you kind of, when you walk around black mountain, there's some really good walking tracks. But in the middle of winter, you go there, you'll be like quite cold. Obviously you'll walk around to a certain point. It's sort of a point that's facing more South. Um, and all of a sudden. there's this little microclimate that kicks in and the temperature instantly raises about two degrees plus and you feel warmer. And it's just the side of the mountain that's obviously more protected. So like people would have been finding places like that where, you know, things are more further. And then that would have been where a lot of the food resources and actually it's interesting when I do walk that side and I've done a few walks with some of the really good friend of mine, Torren Bell, local Nangawar man. around that side and we'd be walking and all of a sudden all this food and medicine just pops up, plants, like in that same space and you're like, well, this is where these, those old people were camping and all their resources are right here, you know? So it kind of, yeah, it's interesting. The country still teaches you and shows you those things even just today. So, hmm. So probably a bit of a long-winded answer, I guess, but it's so much to the seasons. And then different things happen at different times. Wattles, I often, when I teach about this stuff, wattles are a great indicator for all the different types of seasons because you always have a different wattle flowering at a different time. We have something like a thousand wattles in Australia, like different types of wattle species. So they all flowering at different times of the year. They're very clever. I always think that wattles are very clever. We've talked about this before, a lot of other trees and flowers aren't in bloom, but the wattles have full stage and they're magnificent. And they kind of come out and they're there for the bees to feed on. Probably very important for that purpose for pollinators, isn't it? Because they can often be the only thing flowering when other things are. It's the acacia family, right? Yes, the acacia family, yeah. So yeah, there's something like 1,005 different acacia species in Australia. And I think in the ACT alone, there's something like 26 different species. Wow. So in amongst that, you're basically getting something flowering at every different specific time of year. It makes so much sense to me to have a season systems like that, which works with what's actually happening and when it's happening. Setting it out that way probably helps people connect more to it as well, because it's actually what you're experiencing at that time. That's right. And teaches you like you have no choice, but to start to, I guess, look and read landscape and observe the landscape. Um, and so like in amongst all of that then, you know, is, okay, well, this wattle is flowering, this fish is starting to travel and may have finished. It's like spawning or mating and it's actually big enough to catch so we can go and catch this type of fish now. Or. this animal is going to mate now. So because of this waddle's flowering, so that means that we can't hunt that animal because it's dreaming it's in its mating. So we got to leave that animal, we can't eat it for the next three months. Like all these different things like start drifting in. Yeah, it's I was out with my children the other evening and we had this, there was a large flock of black cockatoo fly, fly over us. And they were spectacular. Their wingspan was so large. And I was like, I'm sure that means there's rain on the way. I was about to say, is it about to rain in Cambridge? Well, we are due. So this was Monday and we are due rain. I think we're due tomorrow. Is it today or tomorrow? Friday, Friday. Is it Friday? And my kids were really interested in it. But is it going to rain now? And I was like, well. Oh, my phone. No, it's not going to rain now. However, I mean, like we're not savvy. Like years ago, we weren't savvy to get our iPhones out, you know, or our phones out. But I was like, but there, there's rain around. There's definitely rain. The rain is around. It was beautiful to see them flying in and there was a lot of them. Does it mean anything else like other than rain? Is there any other? Oh, I mean, generally that's the most, yeah, they're most associated with rain and they actually are really important. I mean, every animal is important, but they're very important, like within the lore and things, they sit very highly in terms of the, to that creator spirit, you know, and those creator beings, they fly very high, they bring that connection. And that rain on their wings, like they bring it in, like it's kind of like a, the spirit aspect of it too, like the two worlds sort of thing. And they bring that. on their wings in to, you know, so you kind of get have whenever I see them, particularly a lone one, like look at it's an ancestor like I've walked into places and it will just be sitting there looking at me. I'm like, yeah, that's interesting. Well, there was, are they, are they supporting you or telling you off? Depends. Just so that you know I'm watching. Yeah, yeah, a little bit of both. They're always a little bit intimidated, I think. Or I am anyway when I see that kind of thing. I'm a bit worried now, because there's about 20 of them. Like, I'm a little bit worried now. I thought there might have been, sorry, I thought there might have been like a bit of a food source around, or because they were landing on certain trees, maybe. There was something, I mean, they're all gum trees around me. I have met you before, by the way, Adam, up in Royala. And there was a few of us and Royala Landcare had a beautiful talk. So that's kind of the topography around there. And the land. So there's a lot of gum. Yeah. They kind of travel through that way to the coast. They migrate through. That might make sense. They definitely do like a big flock of that. Like, yeah, they'll be looking for food and stuff, but when it's really noticeable and they're really making a big sound and all moving in one area, it's usually a good sign that rain's coming. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of them. And they have a different squawk, don't they? They have a different type of squawk. You definitely acknowledge them when they're over. You were. You touched on caring for country. What are some ways that all Australians can care for country? Hmm gee that's a really good question. I think um for gee firstly is more of that acknowledgement too of country. I don't mean it as just acknowledging the people like obviously that's really important too. But start to acknowledge more the apps like the beauty of country that's there and that's that we all have you know we all connect to in one way or another. track, you know, like Canberra is really a great place for that because there's usually a reserve nearby, near home. We're very lucky. Yeah, we're very lucky. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And it's kind of just taking it, taking that in, you know, um, a lot of, I guess. We have very tangible, obviously ways to look after country. You know, there's the practical tangible ways, but we also have the kind of intangible spiritual. connection practice type stuff too and that's a big part of that because country can knows who you are and can feel you and so that kind of interaction and actually even just giving thanks for that you know for being around what we were talking about of like around a group like gum trees or trees or something you know I mean trees to me are so important obviously like they don't just play the function that they do that most of us obviously know of like in terms of you know oxygen and shade and all that sort of stuff but they also from that kind of I guess our that spiritual kind of look at it they take up a lot of our you know negative energy and they reflect you know I mean think of or reflect and all your listeners out there reflect when you listen sit under a tree how much better you feel you know like you always say that Avril yeah you always say that you can just go out and sit under a train feel better yeah Yeah, yeah. But I'd never thought of it from that perspective. And even when you just say there about if you respect the land, I guess that's the first step, right? If you respect it, then that drives your actions and you think and act differently. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And I love touching trees as well, Adam, like their bark, how it's the colour. Like I think I had done like a quick video once of a paper bark tree. And the amount of people that commented on it, just saying how therapeutic that was watching you touch that tree. And I was like, it's pretty special just to touch them and their colors and follow the shape. Yeah, it's. Yeah. I mean, if you think of it, too, if you think of a tree, it's got its roots right deep down into our mother, into Mother Earth and connecting that way. But then it's connecting right up to the sky. it's that kind of ultimate balance between the masculine, feminine, the whole, you know, kind of thing and it's showing us that kind of just to bring things back in and balance and more perspective things, you know. So, yeah, I just think, again, long-winded, but like the first kind of steps is really just to appreciate and connect. And then obviously there's all sorts of things. I mean, there's always opportunities, again, going I suppose going back to more of that kind of practical area, there's always opportunities to, you know, jump in with a land care group or something and help out, you know, plant some plants or- Conservation work. Conservation type work. There's always like usually volunteer opportunities in that kind of space. Even things like, you know, taking trash and stuff out of waterways. I mean, our water, that's another thing. Waterways are so important. We're not gonna be here without water, so. just appreciating that element and then like just doing your little part, even if it's just with a plastic bag going along the creek and picking a few things up, like, you know, everything means something. Like it doesn't have to be this huge kind of gesture. Yes, yes. Yeah. Because if we all did that, like eight billion people or whatever, well, you know. And it's something so small, isn't it? Like it's... You can just go out on a little walk with your family and just be very mindful, take it all in, pick up a few bits of litter. And if everyone done that, like we've, it's something so basic, isn't it? Yeah. You'll find like I find I have like walk and like I'll do, go for walk in a morning. And consciously start to pick up some litter and then I'm just like, oh, I should have brought a few bags of me, you know, because you start noticing it everywhere and you're just like, this is really sad. Do you remember that song Adam? A little bit of litter goes a long, long way. Mother nature is choking on it every day. You gotta do the right thing. It's an obligation and you gotta well thank you for your cooperation. Really? You've heard that? I've won in well, yeah, yeah. Do we try to embarrass myself at least once on every episode? Yeah. Is that like an advertising campaign? Yeah, I think it was a Clean Up Australia campaign or maybe or something like that. I just remember. Yeah. Oh, we have beatbox done this show. Feel free to sing anything if you feel like it. Yeah, feel free. I love it. And just going back to your, your journey, Adam, and you'll obviously always have that connection. But you also, you do a lot of herbal medicine. Ah, yeah, yeah. So is that something you still you still do? Yeah, definitely. So, so that kind of, so yeah, talking about journey type stuff. So obviously, like I was saying, I was And I think we sort of got sidetracked on a bit of stuff. That's all right. No, it's good. Idiot was sitting there. That journey, like I've, so I've always had an interest in plants. So, and, and actually a big part of it. So like I obviously had a lot from my, my father's side and a lot of the Arneys and that, you know, particularly right into plants and different things. But, um, probably my first spark was from my mother's side. So my mother's Welsh and her. Um, my grandfather, um, he was from Isle of Man. Um, yeah. And he was just absolutely gangbusters for native plants. Like, so he moved to Australia and his garden was just absolutely amazing. Like all native plants, everything. And that's where I really started. I was just like, this is, you know, I just feel at home coming into this place. So they, they were in a little, you know, govey home in, in Yarralum. I don't know if it'd be worth buddy. Five million. But back then it was just a little guppy home, you know, and he just had a beautiful native garden through there. And so that sort of really sparked my interest. And then from there, I spent a period of time working for, so in my working life, started, well, I kind of started in, you know, as everyone does in sort of at the Coles or, you know, check out or at the BP service station, actually was my thing as well. You were careful. Finger-licking good. Yeah, yeah. So you're, yeah, most of us all start out somewhere like that. But I then applied for a traineeship at IATSIS. And so Canberra people probably know IATSIS over near the museum, Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies. And so I did that for about six or so, seven years. And I was a great job, loved it. We were taking... materials back to community. So like recorded materials, archive materials, photographic materials, all that sort of stuff all around Australia. It was a great job. Um, got to do some amazing things, but I sort of was just like, I need to get out of an office, I can't sit here. Um, and it's funny how you always have that one person that sort of just gives you things along your path, but my sister's always been that person and she just obviously instinctively recognized that and sent me this email and goes, look at this, there's this train a ship. Parks and Conservation Service. And so I said, yeah, I'm going to go for it. And it was a decent drop in money, but I was like, I need to do something different. So did the traineeship, three other Aboriginal people. It was a land care kind of initiative at the time, the two way for Aboriginal trainees. Absolutely loved my time. Had a boss who was really into plants. So again, I'm getting connected to that plan. So he just, he could identify any plant. in the world, I swear he was just, there was just so amazing, he knew everything, I went into Greening Australia after a because unfortunately, and this is always these traineeship starts, but there's no people to move through the organization, so there's like, oh, we might have a job for one of you, but we don't have a job for all of you. And fortunately, Greening Australia, who's a non government organisation, environment organisation, were wanting to put on an Indigenous person because they hadn't sort of had it any in the region. So I was lucky enough to go there. That's when I really because they do focus on plants and things, really got even more into that. And so it was lots of, you know, lots of opportunities. I was going lots of places, connecting with people. And I remember doing a workshop one night, I was around medicine, so bush medicine. I was at ANU and they just asked me, they threw it on me. And I was like, okay, I can do this. I'll go and I'll talk. And I started talking about these plants. And I've seen, as soon as I rocked up, I've set everything up and I've seen this aboriginal elder. lady in the crowd. I'm like, she's looking at me like, not taking her eyes off me. Okay, here we go. And so I start talking and I'm like showing things around and she'd come and whisper in my ear, she's like, oh, you know, you can do this, this as well. I was like, oh, okay. So I'd be saying what I knew. This lady, one of us doing this to her. Yeah, yeah. And she's like doing and she kept doing it. By the end of the class, like everyone's just asking her, I'm not going to do this, how do we do this? And I'm just sort of sitting back like, far out, okay. Um, so like up to that point I'd already had to learn from some really great elders, you know, in the field about plants and stuff and it was very, yeah, a lot of the stuff I'd learned already was amazing and then Aunt Min, um, Aunt Minmaya Rajri elder, she was basically at that thing and she said look, I can see your passion for this. I'm going to teach her the medicine and stuff. So she basically, from there, I started learning from her. And so that's where I've sort of come to get to the point I am now in that sense of making traditional medicines and things. So we don't use all traditional plants. Obviously, we use introduced plants that are still very medicinal and important. But most of it was what she's teaching me is our traditional native plants and how we use them. So if you were only allowed to grow five native plants in your garden or ten, five, what would you pick? Oh gosh, I don't know if I can do that. Yeah, so five. Well, so what I have growing here now in the world since I started, since I got back here, one really important one, which is an important one, for our people out here is condom. So I've got a condom growing. Is that a fruit? It is, it's a beautiful fruit. It grows all around Davo here. It's sort of about the size of a, probably the size of a small peach. Ooh, I'm gonna write this down. Yeah, and it has a very tart. It's being recorded, everyone. I know, yeah, but I wanna leave and remember it. I wanna leave and remember it. Yeah, it has a very tart. sort of, but sweet flavor. Yep. Um, and it's a really interesting plant. Like when you go and pick it from the tree, it's got like, the fruit is really fleshy, so it almost feels like you're eating a piece of meat, but like it's, oh, it's pretty as well. Almost like, like a mango. Little bit. Yeah. A little bit mango more, um, I don't know how to explain it in a, from a fruit kind of point of view, um, what's similar, but. From a mushroom type point of view, it's, you know how mushrooms can be kind of meaty and a little bit like extra, but with sort of, um, also with sort of sweetness and also with a bit of tartness. Do you need to prepare them a certain way or can you just eat them straight off the tree? Tree. Um, and as with any bush food, generally you're going to get one that's really beautiful. And the next one's going to be like, because it's so variable. So a lot of people, a lot of the old people, elders and that around like, and a lot of non-Indigenous people have grown up who have grown around the bush and that will just pick them and make jams and chat with them. Because super high in vitamin C it's probably like, or not, not as comparable, but if you guys have heard of Kakadu plum, which is like huge in the kind of native food industry, the highest vitamin C content of any fruit in the world. It's absolutely packed full of. vitamin C. Condoms are sort of like the similar down this way. Less vitamin C but still a lot more than like your conventional orange or anything like that. Do you reckon they'd grow in Canberra? Yeah, would they grow? They, so... Or maybe like my citrus, I could move it into the greenhouse in winter? Yeah, well actually the plant that I've got in my yard came from my good green thumb mate Blake who is in Holt. in Garebro. So he grows a whole lot of different specialty stuff and he grow he can grow them quite easily. The thing is one they're parasite plants so they need a host plant. Okay. Which a lot of native plants are they sort of have these symbiotic relationships with other plants. So you need yeah it can be quite difficult to kind of. What does that mean that if you have one it'll just get annihilated? What does that mean? Yeah so the Kwandong as like a lot of other native plants are semi-parasite, I should say. Um, there's probably a better science term, but that's generally the gist of it. So it can grow out of a seed by itself and go okay for a while, but it eventually needs to attach onto like a host plant. Oh, and the host plant will give it like nutrients and water and... Almost like grafting. Almost, yeah. Would it be like the mistletoe tree that grows? Yes, mistletoe. Mistletoe, yes. See how the mistletoe grows on the eucalyptus? Yeah. Parasite for the eucalyptus. So the Kwandong will grow on all sorts of things. Most places you'll probably find it on a wattle. So it'll grow on a wattle. Out here, what I've found generally around Dubbo is it likes the, it likes two plants. It likes the... boobie ala which is a beautiful little bush fruit again, a little purple fruit, which is a really lovely one. And the other one that likes is the emu bush, which is a bush medicine. Um, so they seem to have this like relationship going on with those two plants and they sort of all thrive together. Um, uh, yeah. So, um, again, sort of trying to get back to your question. They would grow, they do grow in Canberra. Okay. They don't grow naturally in Canberra. but you could grow them. And I have been told that there's a CSIRO scientist who did his PhD in quandons living in Aranda, who has like a backyard full of quandons. Yeah. I'm one of my many talks and workshops. Um, uh, I remember a lady popped up and said, Oh, such and such. My neighbor is a PhD scientist at CSIRO and has a, his whole fence line is they drop into my yard and they kind of drop off. Yeah. What else have you got in your garden there? Okay, yes. I was trying to get the five plants. So I suppose a really, a really lovely tasting one, again, it's fruit is the muntry. So again, probably not too common in the ACT. The muntry is a coastal one, and it grows more around the Victorian and South Australia. coastlines. So I like sand, like soils. So far so good out here. I've put a couple plants in and they're okay. I've sort of tried to mimic its environment a little bit. They are sort of really getting commercialized now. They're really tasty fruit. They're like a little cinnamon apple, apple flash even cranberry. And do they produce a lot of fruit? Yes. Yeah. So lots of fruit, um, five times more antioxidants than blueberries. So like, so they're so good for you. Super good for you. Yeah. So that's, that's probably my second. And then I'll, I'll pick something that's more camera based for the third plan. Um, but now you got me thinking what, what can I pick? Probably, um, one that I do a lot of sharing with and talking on my talks. and is in a lot of Canberra gardens anyway that people don't know actually has the use is the false Aspirella or the hard Ambergia. Oh, is this a Happy Wanderer? Yeah, the Happy Wanderer. Oh, yes. I have drunk your tea. Yes. Oh, is that? That can be a tea. Yeah. It can. Yeah. And it has two different... Tell us about it. Go on. I don't want to interrupt you. I'm very excited about this. I'll challenge you. What do you remember? I remember that lady from the CSIRO, pop it up in the stands. And I just remember it had two different types of potencies. So you could have it that way because it can make you quite sleepy. That's right. Yeah. So it's a, if you drink enough of it, it'll make you, it'll turn sedative. If you have like sort of a half a cup. or so like or a cup even depends it's everyone's different you know as well so I can't really say exact doses for people but generally sort of a half of a mug or something you it just calms you down it's kind of like coming up a calming yeah so when I'm doing like talks and stuff I'll generally do like I get the little shot glass type yeah size and I just give that around just to be safe. So people just drink that and sort of nice. I was in my element that day because he had us trying everything and Renadette often tries everything. She'll be like she'll see what I think is a noxious weed. She picks a leaf off, she's nibbling at it. She's like I wonder what this is. I'm like well hopefully but she's really brave like that. But I think you sort of have to be with some of this stuff, don't you? Because I think people are a bit too afraid, but you should also know what you're doing. Well, I kind of feel that I wouldn't eat anything. Like I kind of know that it's going to be something that is edible. Brendan will arrive at my garden one day and I will be on the ground. But I did. What's that, foxglove? Yeah. You see, I'd never, I'd never eat a fudgespub. And I, I'm very wary around mushrooms as well. Like I'm, you know, cause I'm not as experienced there. It actually brings me to something that I wanted to talk to you about. Have you seen Alone? Ah, so I haven't actually watched it. I'm terrible, but I, I know, um, Kate on the show. Oh, of course, of course. Cause she, and I've, I've done a bit of work with her over the years. Yeah. So you've got her still in there? I don't want to, I don't want to use these spoilers for anyone, but it's filmed in, I think it's the Lutruwita area at Tasmania. And so basically, survivalists that are thrown out on their own and they have to live off the land, you would be perfect for it. Because they're all, they sit there and like, they're like, there's absolutely nothing to eat. But then Kate, like you were talking about, it's amazing. Actually, when you know what you're looking for, and you know how to identify things, even what you were talking about before when you're saying about how the fish and they go through cycles because some of them they're fishing and they're getting all these fish and then it gets colder and the cycle changes and they're like, I don't know what's happened. There's no more fish anymore, but you would be great. You've got, you'd love it, but most of it, you're just watching them starve to death. Yeah, true. Yeah. And Kane actually, she messaged me before the show and she's like, Oh, I just love like bush foods. And, um, is it all right if I. posts about it and stuff. Look, it is. I said, just acknowledge what country you're picking it from. So like I sort of said, cause she's like, she does a lot of tracks down in Yuin, South coast country. So I just said, look, just when you talk about a plant, just acknowledge that plant has been used by Yuin people for a long time and continues to be used. And it's an important part of culture. That's all you need to do. Cause she was a bit worried about talking about it. She does it. The first thing she catches, she's starving. is an eel. Yeah, right. She's eating this eel and she's like, she goes, it's so oily. She's trying to get this thing. I'm like, that'd be me. Was it raw? She was eating it raw? No, she cooked it, but they're so fatty. And it's such a strong flavour. And actually, I think she learns later on this different way to preparing them to make it. I think she just boiled it straight up. But yeah, they were actually smoked a lot. Yes. In the trees and things. Which someone else does which makes sense right because of the fat content. I think that would take the flavour on. Like can he smoke bacon and the bacon fat takes on the smoke? Yeah. Yeah but yeah I just think you would have left them for dead. I don't know but although I do know that Tassie, I would have done all right in Tassie because it's very similar landscape once I would have known a lot of the plants and stuff down there so I think I'm probably better alright but yeah you never know. plants are okay, but then they'll like see a platypus and obviously they're protected. So they're like, you can't eat the platypus. That's where it gets hard. But they're like, I'm so hungry. I'd probably be going on the easier stuff. As you say, invasive, but easy, which would be unfortunately things like carp, like, cause they're full of bones, but you can live off that stuff and you can pull as much as you want out of the river, you know, and they're easy to catch. And things like that. They struggle Adam. Yeah. One guy eats leeches, he gets so desperate. He eats leeches and it's horrific. Did he cook them? He cooked them but they have a really slimy coating. I don't know, it's going to make me gay. I wouldn't be any more. And it was a leech that had been feeding on a dead fish. Fishy grubs are available. Yeah, which I ate a wichita grub actually at school. We did a little, probably something similar to what you do in terms of education. taking us out of the classroom and learning. And I don't know if I've made this up, but you might be able to tell me, I think it tasted like peanut butter. Yeah. A Wichita grub. It's got, it's an interesting one. It can sort of vary between peanuts and peanut butter. Wow. And sometimes it can be actually quite eggy, like egg sort of consistency. And then sometimes chicken, it's sort of all. You'd hope for a peanut one, wouldn't you? Yeah, yeah. Especially... If you can stomach eating it raw, it changes. But a lot of people can't, which I don't blame. But yeah, but I- I think as a kid I was like, yes, sweet. I don't know if I could now. I've taken young kids out and we've found loads of them, and they dare in each other as you know. Like between ages they're daring each other and you like cook them on the fire. Like, so they're not so wiggly and then they're easier. Yes. And then they're pretty good then, like they're not too bad. I'd love to taste a Wichita Grubb. Could you often talk about ants as well? Yes. So the green ants in Queensland and they've got like a little zing to them as well. Almost like licking a battery. They give you a little shock, but you can also eat them. I have never licked a battery. I mean, why would you even want to do that? I feel like this is just another rite of passage as a child. You've never licked a light bulb battery? Help me out here, Adam. Have you done that? No, I haven't. I was going to talk about ants though. I have eaten the... the termite, the little white ants in Canberra. Yeah, right. Yeah, so you stir up their little nests there. I mean, their nests are everywhere, the termite nests around Canberra. So one thing though I've been told, and Tyrone shares this on his walk, so I'm probably, I'm safe to share this, but be careful if you come across a termite mound with rocks, big rocks or something placed around it, it could be one of their old burial areas. So... you know, you don't want to be disturbing one like that. But I mean, generally today, the most of the termites you see come across are just the termite mounds. And if you sort of break into them a bit, agitate them, they all start coming out and you can kind of pick them up and eat them. They actually have a slight sweetness to them. Um, and I remember being told, um, again, I can't even remember the elder who was mentioning it, but, um, that whenever they felt a little bit ill, like, you know, you feel a bit of a cold or something going on, go to a termite nest, eat a bunch of termites, next day you're fine. Like, so it's like a medicine as well, you know, and yeah, so plants... Maybe they're high in vitamin C as well or something? Yeah, yeah, so yeah, a lot of the kids would eat them, like the kids would just go up and have a little bit of a punch in them, because they've got that slight sweetness to them. Yeah, like a tasty little... Yeah. Yeah, I remember when I am done my walk with you, Adam, there was a tree, you were looking in the distance and there was a tree that didn't look so healthy. And you from memory had explained that tree would be a good tree for looking for ants like you had. Oh yeah, for grubs. Yeah, grubs was it? Yeah, that it was, wasn't, it was probably attacked by the grubs, the tree, which made it. die or wasn't too healthy. You can peel the bark back, can't you? So they're under sort of sit underneath the bark. And I just thought, cause again, it's all about looking at the land, what's in front of you and then realizing, you know, that one's not some, there's something going on there. And that led you to think about some, something else. And I found, I found that fantastic. I thought that was great. Yeah. Those are the indicators again, in the land. I tell it the land. tells you basically. And that's another thing that has always been, I guess, in driven into me is, you know, nature teaches us and shows us what we need and things, you know, and that can be medicine as well. Like a plant might look like the shape of your lungs and will help you to open your lungs and help you to breathe. You know, so like, it's a really interesting thing how nature will actually literally throw it in your face and say, this is what this is good for. And it's just reading that and learning that. And I think when you're talking about that connection and living off the land that way, that's also a very sustainable way of approaching the land, right? When a plant's making seeds, you know, that's not the time to harvest from that plant. You need to let it finish what it's doing. But you know, we talk a lot on this podcast about mindful living and working with nature and that really comes down to those same fundamental principles, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, definitely. So I mean, again, yeah, that's that whole... particularly Aunt Min, who's taught me a lot, sort of talks about that kind of, you know, everything has its dreaming and its place. And so some things like, and that's that those kind of laws and protocols and that natural law type thing that we're talking about here in terms of, you know, we only take at certain times from each resource. And so yes, some plants like you said, it might be when it's seeding, you can't, or it might be when it's flowering that you can't. touch it, like you need to let it do its thing because it's again, it's in its streaming or it's in its time. Um, and then animals will be the same. And so they might be mating or they might be moving somewhere like, um, which if you take from that animal at that time, that might upset the whole cycle of moving somewhere else to then start to mate or something, you know what I mean? So it's kind of understanding those sort of deeper, that deeper knowing and, um, connection to. to country. And so, yeah, it was kind of I mean, I suppose all of that stuff is was so important, particularly from a traditional way of life. Because if you sort of took down too much of a resource, it's gone, you know, and then you don't have it anymore. And then that's like a whole generation is potentially going to starve and things if they don't have this resource. So it was really driven into everyone as a child is like you don't you only take for so long, you know, take more and yeah, take what you need, not what you agreed is the saying with it. Yeah. So like, it's only for so long and then you need to move on to something else. I mean, today we get so used to having tomatoes and avocados all year round, you know, so it's kind of like, but like everything has that place. Originally, you know, when if we grow veggies in our garden, we know that there's only two or three months when we have tomatoes or there's only three months when we have strawberries or whatever it is. So everyone can go back and learn that. It's just, I guess, a convenient way of life. We've gotten used to having everything. That's right. Yeah. I think it kind of comes back as well to, like, we are in, like, our climate action. Like, I mean, we try and not say the word emergency, but we were talking earlier, I quite like saying it because it brings people, it brings it to people's attention, but not to panic them, but to try and look at... where we can improve and do things a lot better and go back to those old techniques that have been around for absolutely 65,000 years. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. And obviously we can't like now where how we're living and things, we're not going to go back fully to any sort of lifestyle, even how old people from everywhere really. Like, I mean, we're all, you know, everyone's indigenous to somewhere. That's right. Originally. And everyone had their original sort of ways of living before we got such a, you know, everything expanded to kind of what we are today in terms of so international global living. But I think there's ways that we can adopt in any type of culture. And, you know, so First Nations, like Aboriginal cultures and things, there's so much we can adopt from that, you know, and as well as all European ways and whatever, you know, of even like as simple as less pressure on, you know, big agriculture and grow more of our own food or whatever it is. That's right. Because then that's going to drive down that demand for it. It's like pepperberry or something like that. I try and grow that and I use some of the leaves and that's from talking to you as well. You're the first person that ever showed me that. Really? Yeah. You scrunched up some, you were like, look at this. Eat it, eat it. Do you like to smell this? Yeah, I mean, I've never had berries from an Adam and I do have a male and a female, but I just, I have them in a pot. I just don't think it's the right environment, but I do use their leaves. Don't give up hope yet. They're very long, slow growing plants. Yeah. Quiet for a few years. Yeah, fair enough. You don't get things straight away from most native plants. You've got to wait a lot. It's a long journey. And they're pretty happy in their pots. So I've just kind of... let them be and I'll just take their leaves and use them in curries and stuff. But yeah, it just shows you that there's probably a lot out there that we don't know about and that we can't. And there's things that kind of, you know, it's not going to eat sustain or give everyone food but just on the pepperberry, like every year you can go up to Tipambilla, oh sorry, Nmaji, like the ground will just be purple with pepper berries. Yeah right. It's kind of like you know well animals aren't eating this like there's this resource just sitting there on the ground you know. Yeah. And we're getting exported pepper from where you know what I mean. So there's these things like this. Yeah you just think we're going to waste over here yet we're bringing it in over here. Yeah yeah. It's crazy. And you only have to drive not even an hour depending where you are in Canberra to find that. place. Like and it's just loaded with fruit sort of thing and yeah so I don't know it's kind of one of those things I guess is people are understanding and maybe being more ready to try different things you know on a menu so that's what's gonna push it to get more commercialized as well. And I think there is a fantastic move movement there and I'm you certainly see more of that now There's a question I might get you to ask out. Oh, there is a question we ask all our guests, Adam, and it's your first gardening memory. Do you have a first gardening memory? Yeah, so that's probably, that's probably with my granddad in that home in Yarralumla that I mentioned. What can you remember? Can you see it? Yeah, I can remember, I must have only been about maybe four or something. I think he was like trimming bottle brushes or something. Um, and I just remember the smells and seeing like he, like he was trimming one of them and then there was one that had loads of flowers and he's like, we've got to leave this one, you know? And it's kind of like, that's again, that kind of, for even though he's not indigenous, you know, he was like, he recognized, no, all the birds are coming in and the bees are using this one, so we can't do one right now. We're going to trim this one that doesn't have any flowers over here. Um yeah I think it's that I just it's I just have particularly the vivid memory of looking at the flower um the flower the bush with lots of flowers and just seeing it beaming with life and then seeing the other ones more a few you know only a few meters away with no flowers and he's like we'll trim this one sort of thing and I'm just watching him so it's probably a first memory I think. Sounds like you recognised your connection at a very young age. Yeah I think so definitely. And you know that passion just exudes out of you. And it's really lovely to fair witness to. So never stop the passion. It's fantastic. No, it's great. I don't think I can. No, no. I'm just getting by the bug. I don't think I can do that without my wife's like, her out, like I'm just getting plants delivered or off the internet. Like, yeah, so yeah, she's just like far out. Like every week I'm getting more plants into the garden. So yeah. That's great. Because it's good. I wonder if you have a garden, like, or are you like, well, my husband's a plumber and we always have leaky taps, right? You know, so when you work in that space, I mean, you can just go out bush, you know, you can go out country and that is your garden. And so it's lovely to see that you're trialling different things in your backyard. That's good. Yeah, well, I mean, and that was another big thing about moving back home too, is we could actually afford a place with a yard. In Canberra we had a place with a very small yard and it was very much like you said with your husband like mine was just overgrown with all sorts of random stuff that I'd chuck and I'd pull that weed out because I might use that for medicine. It was like a weed you know, like I gotta leave that there. It wasn't, it was all over the place and it was this tiny piece of grass really. That's all we had and for my young children it was just not ideal you know. And now they've got a space where they can run around and enjoy themselves. And I can actually have a garden and stuff as well. So yeah, so that's been another big thing. Are we going to see you back in Canberra? Are you going to travel back? Are you going to work here? I'm always back in Canberra a moment anyway. So I'm sort of back every kind of month, month and a half. Yes. Doing things, doing work. And it was, it's been quite difficult, obviously to cut that because my business was doing so well in Canberra as well. It was a full time for five years basically full time running workshops and projects and programs. So, so I still definitely do stuff there but starting to do more stuff out here. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, over time, probably less, but for the foreseeable future, at least there's still a lot of work in Canberra. That's that's good to know because I know you've done, you do a lot of workshops at the National Museum as well. So it'll be good to see them still. Yeah, they have booked me in right up till 2024 now. Oh, it's good to have a security. Yeah, definitely. That's again, that season type thing. So going back to that, that's every sort of season they do that. So it's more looking in the fall season, the not so traditional season look, but it's kind of. workshops, you know, the next one's I think August and then there's one in September, sorry October, then there's one in February. They sort of, because when you walk through that garden, just that garden alone, you have different stuff every period of the year. Yes, different times of the year. So you get a sort of a slightly different experience each time, there you go. And before we finish up Adam, is there anything that you would like to say or talk about or touch on before we finish up today? Gee, that's a good one. I think, um, I suppose maybe when we're talking about, like you guys were talking a bit about sort of climate action and climate change and different things like that, like something that I've been talking to a few different people about is I suppose, um not, um forgetting the role that Indigenous, like First Nations people can play and want to play on country and like so you know, um, I've spoken to you know, big, even like medical organisations where they've got these plans to do like planetary health and things around, you know, you know, solar farming and this and that is like, that all big picture stuff is good, but how are we helping our people get back to country and work on country and, you know, care for country because that's a really important thing as well, an aspect of it. And I think the whole healing part of that journey is kind of having our people being able to access their, that land again. And connect and I'm not saying like land back type thing, which is obviously nice as well, but like just those avenues to help our people have access. I mean, I, you know, we're TOs out in this region, but we don't have access to any land, like it's all agriculture and other than some small areas where it's like crown or bushlands like that we can go. So I think that's a big one. If we have more of our people on country caring for country, um, that's a really good way to start to look at. how we change the bigger picture as well. Like it's not always just about, like people get really focused, I guess, in the renewables and things like that, which is great. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that, but there's also other elements and perspectives on things too. So, and that, if you let help, I guess, our people get back on country, then that's going to help health of our people as well. Um, so it's just a flow, it's a flow on effect. It's not just. helping country like them people, we were healthier in their minds and stuff. So yeah, I suppose that's a good thing to leave with as well. Yeah, I know that's beautiful. It's something for people to consider, you know, when. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time today and for letting us get to know you and chatting to us. And we wish you all the best. And I hope our paths cross again one day. I hope so. Well, we should look at some of the workshops out there. at the museum. You'll see Avril nibbling on the picture. You're welcome to come along. Yeah, we will. Thank you for everything you do and all your knowledge that you share, Adam. It's fantastic. Thank you. Thank you. No worries. All righty. Take care. Bye. lovely wasn't it Avril? That was amazing. That was amazing and I just love like Adam's passion just jumps through. It does. It does. And you know what I mean he was obviously on the screen and he's not in front of you can imagine when he's in front of you. How compelling. How compelling and how passionate and how powerful that is I mean to have me eat in LeMandre. And you know you know I really like how well he simplified everything in terms of If you care for country, genuinely connect and care for country, then everything else, all your actions and everything else then are more sustainable, more mindful. It's a really easy place to start from. That's right. Yeah. I've always felt, you know, I'm very open when it comes to art and living, like to wood, a love and a thing natural, like those natural materials. Like I'm wearing my, as I said, my... Wooden balls. My wooden balls. But when it comes even to weaving, and I think that goes back to my culture that a lot and I think that's handmade. I feel more connected to it. Anything that's, you know, that I'm wearing that's handmade. Like I've got an Aaron, an Aaron cardigan that you sometimes see me wear. Yes, that is my mom's cardigan from the 60s. Wow. And so I feel. that connection through my bits, like from my culture. And I can only start to imagine what a First Nations person can feel with their culture and their land. And when you have that connection, then you have the value, right? Well, the value is very important because we've got no value in a lot of things we buy nowadays. So that cardigan. That's why it's easy to buy stuff and throw it away. It's disposable. Yeah. So you would never throw that cardigan away? Never, never. I will repair it and repair it. I've got actually a lot of my mom's clothes from many, many years ago and scarves. And they are the ones that you will wash properly and will look after. And hand down to your daughter. And hand down, yes. Yes, exactly. So it is about, obviously we talk about being mindful. but there's something really powerful about just having something that has meaning. And a much more fulfilling way to live, if you ask me, to be connected to value, value what's around you, that's a lot more fulfilling. Yeah. And just going back to the last plant that Adam recommended, because it's quite popular here in Canberra, called it the happy wanderer. That plant grows everywhere. And I... have it at my front door climbing up because I wanted a climber and I wanted a native. It's got a purple flower. I know what that is now. Yeah. You've got one on the left. And it's going to grow down into the light. Oh yes. Yeah. I've got one there, but I've got it. I've got right at my front door, whereas a lot of people might have chosen maybe a jasmine or a wisteria. I wanted like a native climber and it gives out the best flower. It's a white one. But it gives out the best flour and it is a native climber. It's perfect. And you can make tea from it. And I can make tea. A sedative tea. A sedative tea. A good skill. No. Actually that tea, Adam also had wattle seed that day. We could have gone on talking to him for ages, but he had wattle seed. Wattle seed is quite a popular culinary ingredient these days. It is, it is. In breads and... Yeah, he had ground it down and it reminded me of my granny's. brown bread, an Irish brown bread. Ah, yum. Yes. You make a lovely brown bread. I noticed that you said you had some earlier today. I did. You were empty-handed when you arrived at my door. I made it at the weekend, so it wasn't the freshest. It would have been stale, but you know what? It was still bloody good. Yeah. What did you have on it? Jam. I had marmalade. Mmm. Butter and marmalade. It was so tasty.